26 May 2006

695) Letter To Robert Fisk From USA, Australia, Canada, Turkey

Turkish Forum Letter To Robert Fisk From USA

To: Letters@...
Cc: editor@...
Subject: Article by Robert Fisk "You're talking nonsense, Mr Ambassador"

(Or shame on you Mr. know-it-all.)

(An Editorial)

Mahmut Esat Ozan
Chairman -Editorial Board
The Turkish Forum

Mr. Fisk, there is nothing worse in this world than being labeled a "know-it-all". A person by that title is one who pretends to know something about everything but really knows nothing about anything . Since the knowledge of things you try to write about does not seem so great, you shouldn't mind my asking you if you were familiar with the colloquialism we use in this country's jargon, ( Tisk-Tisk) , an expression composed of two words which when it is placed in front of the name of an unfortunate person such as yours, it connotes that the person in question had done a shameful deed. And speaking of shameful deeds,

Mr. Fisk, you seem to be ahead of many we know. You appear to be a genuine expert in that field. I, for one, have been noticing your irrational, biased, and prejudiccial behavior through the years, vis-à-vis the venerable nation of Turks. Every article you write concerning the Turks is replete with offensive passages, undeserved accusations, at times innuendoes, at others out and out lies hurled against them, the Turks about whom you claim they initiated the very first alleged genocide of the Twentieth century and decimated the Ottoman Armenians. The very latest of one of those irresponsible recriminations appeared in your latest drivels involving the Pope's visit to Syria. You've been complaining that in the past 15 years 15 million Christians have abandoned their homes in the largely Muslim world. What baffles me is the way you manipulate this piece of ordinary news and very cunningly relate it to your favorite subject "the alleged Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Turks." You seem to be stuck on this one subject and sound like a broken record every time you bring it up .

The newest form of your idiosyncrasy, showing your obsession in defending the Armenian causes, is apparent in your following sentence: "Turkey's genocide of its Armenian community in 1915 left the bones of one and a half million Christians across Anatolia and what is now northern Syria." Really, Mr. Fisk what possible connection could you find between the visit of the head of world Catholicism and the alleged 'genocidal events which may have taken place over eight decades ago. Allow me to read your twisted mind, Mr. Fisk. You are an incorrigible Turcophobe.

You cannot help yourself. Chances are either you were born with that affliction or someone inculcated that prejudice into your feeble brain when you were most vulnerable to discrimination involving the Turks. In your last article you are quoting an obscure "Dr.Jarjour, whoever he may be, and whatever weight his words may carry. You tell us that this so-called Dr. instructs us, '-somewhat defensively- that the present-day Christian exodus is primarily economic.' Nevertheless, you quote from him, or you extract from this poor fellow's words the following quotation:: "I wouldn't say at all that there is a religious factor , except in some cases like Turkey where Christians have been a little pressured recently." Honestly Dr. Jarjour, or whatever your name is, and you Mr. Fisk, what was that 'little pressure' Turks inflicted on the Christians in Turkey? Are you referring to the Turkish government's recent expenditures in renovating the Greek Orthodox Patriarchy building in Fener, in Istanbul?, or are you referring to the acquittal of a Syrian Armenian Priest who was accused to have made statements that his ancestors were the victims of a Turkish genocide in 1919? You were not fair , nor were you specific when Dr.Jarjour was talking to you against Turks.

You see, Mr. Fisk, I am proud to belong to that honorable nation of 'Turks', whose early ancestors brought civilization to the European continent, when its inhabitants were still wallowing in muddy huts and tribes decimated each other in fratricidal animalistic wars. Ottoman Turks, even then, knew how to vaccinate people against diseases caused by bacteriological factors. They were reaping the benefits of time-telling devices such as clocks etc. when the Europeans were about to discover the uses of 'sundials'. A newly produced documentary film called, Empire of Faith narrated by the British actor, Ben Kingsley, of the 'Ghandi' fame was Extolling the superiority of the Muslim world. More than half of the presentation was consecrated to the achievements of the Turks in various fields, other than military, let alone their legendary tolerance and magnanimity in treating differing religions when Europe imposed on the Jews the cursed inquisitions and forced conversions.

When no Christian country wanted to admit into their domain any Jew expelled from Spain and Portugal, it was the Turkish Sultan 'Beyazit' who welcomed them into his vast empire to come and settle there and flourish in freedom of religion, and the pursuit of their own language, culture and trade.. Turks even sent sea-faring galleons to Spain to transport these unfortunate people, free of charge, to any and all points of their realm. Turks, for centuries, helped to enlighten your ancestors. Sometime it was a losing battle. Europeans learned from my ancestors, but they, in turn derided them at every chance they had.

There were, however, intellects such as the renown British anthropologist and historian Edson L. Clark (1827-1913) who said in his "Nations of the World Series,1900,N.Y. (pp. 84-87.) that the Turks whose honor and the dignity you have been pummeling and mauling these many years, were, and I quote: "...far better men and far abler rulers than the wretched tyrants whom they suppressed....the Turks were in advance, not of their Christian subjects alone, but of the greater part of Christian Europe."

Mr. Fisk, I know that you British do not consider yourselves European. However, you must admit that you live on the European continent and are a British Commonwealth member state of the European Union. What I am driving at, Mr. Fisk, is the fact that your ancestors were then as you are now, an inferior exemplification in comparison to the Turks. Let me elucidate a bit more by adding that you belong to the illustrious school of 'Political Science' of the turn of the century British Prime Minister, one Lloyd George who, when he was getting ready to "annihilate" the last remnants of the dying Ottoman Empire, was gloating by saying to the whole world the following:

"The Turks are a human cancer, a creeping agony in the flesh of the lands they misgovern, rotting every fiber of life. I am glad that the Turk is to be called to a final account (referring to the impending Greek invasion of Asia Minor ) for his long record of infamy against humanity."

The British PM, not being an adequately -educated British subject, reminded me of you, Mr. Fisk. He was unaware of the above-mentioned quotation from Edson L. Clark. Thus, a rancorous, vindictive and vengeful Lloyd George, not Unlike yourself , launched a campaign, 'doomed from the beginning' in the Ottoman Turkish lands in Gallipoli, against those he called "human cancers" the Turks. Even though aided by the French and the Anzak military forces and the world's most formidable naval armada, the Allied forces were repulsed. Lloyd George not only lost his post as the Prime Minister of his disgruntled country, but he lost his honor and his shirt, too, in the process. In addition he carried down with him, to the abyss, his favorite, but incompetent advisor Winston Churchill, who was the First Lord of the Admiralty. The glorious victor of the Dardanelles, the military genius of the Gallipoli campaign, the great Mustafa Kemal had taught them a lesson they never forgot. Lloyd George died as a broken, destitute soul after having sheepishly underestimated and unjustly denigrated the noble Turk.

Let us hope that you, dear Mr. Fisk, may be spared such a predicament of fate.

Recently a Letter writer said the following to an English language publication. "I have been living in Turkey 8 months, and I intend to spend the rest of my life somewhere in your country. You have made me most welcome. I' m glad I chose your Turkey rather than England or France or any other European country. This gentleman's words were familiar to me. I had read a passage from a Swedish king once. Hurriedly I checked my files and found what I was looking for. Mr. Fisk, I'd like to share Swedish King Charles VII's words with you. And again, knowing the stuff you are made of, I suspect you may not enjoy it as much as the Friends of the Turks. Here's that full quotation he wrote to his sister Ulrique-Eleanor in 1772:

"I was going to be a prisoner in Poltova, (Russian territory at that time) that would have been my death. I was saved on the shores of Bugh River. Then the danger became more imminent...I was saved. But today I am a prisoner of the Turks. What fire, steel, and floods were not able to do the Turks did. I don't have chains on my feet. I am not in jail, either. I am free, free to do whatever I like . But I still am a prisoner- a prisoner of affection, of generosity, of nobility, of courtesy. The Turks have tied me with this diamond chain. Oh! if you knew how sweet it is to live as a free slave with people so affectionate, so noble, so gentle." I hope you are listening Lloyd George, wherever you may be.

I've been asking myself the following question over and over again concerning you and people like you: "What is their problem.?" I try to answer my very own questions. I find no answers. I am unable to decipher the origin of your arrogance and your disrespectful behavior when it comes to Turks. Your defense of the Armenian "riff-raffs who have made a profitable industry of accusing the Ottoman Turks of having perpetrated the most heinous of all crimes, the crime of genocide, and in the same breath denying that they have not even bloodied a single Turkish nose. When neutral, non-Turkish historians accept that for every Armenian who was killed in that civil war, within a World War in 1914-1918, four (4) Muslim Turks, Kurds, Sircassians, and Azerbaijanis lost their precious lives. But I guess you don't pay too much attention to that because they were not Christian. Most observers can not tell us where this hatred for Turks is emerging. You are a part of that equation. The only source of frustration from which you are suffering may be the result of your government's disability to prove that Turks were guilty of a premeditated so-called genocide. There was not an iota of evidence found in the infamous trials held on the island of Malta conducted by the British occupiers of the Ottoman capital, Istanbul, when they arrested and took with them a goodly portion of Ottoman government functionaries to the Island of Malta and imprisoned them for over a year, trying to extract from them juicy confessions, but at the end they totally failed. The final communiqué sent to Lord Curzon was very disappointing to the Armenians and their 'bootlicker' friend, such as you Mr. Fisk. The royal report had said at the time:


Nevertheless, Mr. Fisk , if you still are unconvinced, then please listen to what the U.S. government had to say. The American General James G. Harbord, of the U.S. government's investigative commission, sent to Anatolia in the fall of 1919 by none other than President Woodrow Wilson, declared unequivocally the following in his official report. General James G. Harbord concluded : The Turks and the Armenians lived in peace, side by side for centuries; that the Turks suffered as much as the Armenians at the time of relocations, that at the start of World War I and before, Armenians never had anything approaching a majority of the population in the territories they call : Western Armenia"; they would not have a majority even if all the deported Armenians returned; and the claims that returning Armenians would be in danger were not justified."

Mr. Fisk, have you read the forged Adonian papers?, have you watched the often exhibited painting of the Armenian skulls piled up in a grotesque heap claiming that it was the Turks who had caused it to happen? Well, the photograph Armenians claim was taken in 1915, actually a stolen copy of a painting done in oil by a late Russian painter, named Vasily Vereschagin. The canvas is dated 1905 and it is still hanging in the Tretyakov Art Gallery in Moscow today. Now Mr. Fisk, I got a hunch you'll deny this too, as you always do, instead you will invoke the infamous Hitler quotation as a last resort. Here is a rebuttal for it, also. Hitler may have been a monster as most claim, but nobody yet accused him for being a stupid individual.

According to Prof. Dr. Turkkaya Ataov,Chairman, International Relations Division, Ankara,Turkey, and the Nuremberg, Germany NAZI War Crimes Trials, that invented quotation does not hold any water. Adolf Hitler never made such an idiotic statement in his life. Prof. Ataov says, however, that Hitler said a few choice words about the Armenians, and that is true. He made one reference to the Armenians in a talk delivered on December 12, 1942, in which he described them as unreliable, (Unzuferlassig) and dangerous,(Gefahrlich). It is rumored also that Hitler was furious about the Armenians when he used those adjectives. I'm afraid those two adjectives were also appropriate to describe you and your unfortunate task against Turks. So, let us say once more: Tisk-Tisk, Robert Fisk. (Shame on you.)


Turkish Forum Letter To Robert Fisk From Australia

From: Ataman Atlas [mailto:aatlas@...]
To: Letters@...
Cc: editor@...
Subject: RE: Article by Robert Fisk "You're talking nonsense, Mr Ambassador"

Dear Sir or Madam;

I write to you about the above mentioned article "You're talking nonsense, Mr Ambassador" written by Mr Fisk. Mr Fisk has always been and will always be biased; he has shown time and time again that he has an innate hatred of all things Turkish. He does not examine the facts in an objective manner and in his attempt to convert more people to his view he puts forward selective material of a dubious nature as if running a Court case.

Even that analogy is far fetched and fanciful considering the excellent reputation of the Common Law system and the fairness it has adopted over many many years of development. In Common Law countries when a person or entity is charged with a Criminal Offence the onus is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty. One of the cornerstones of the Common Law system, oft stated by Judges and Justices, is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Also there are full disclosure requirements put on the prosecution, in order to put all exculpatory and inculpatory evidence before the Court or at the very least to the Defence.

I would seriously question Mr Fisk's ethical and moral standing as a person whom refuses to accept the insurmountable and irrefutable evidence in support of the Turkish or Ottoman case. He refuses point blank to accept the following given fact situation; The British and allies won World War 1, the British took control of Istanbul the old Capital of the Ottoman Empire, including all Ottoman archives at that time. He refuses to acknowledge that his own country men arrested or had arrested some 144 Ottoman Officials and Military personnel and conveyed them to the then colony of Malta with a view of prosecuting them for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Mr Fisk further refuses to accept the point that after approximately two plus years and after the British had conducted exhaustive inquiries, all were released without charge. Mr Fisk compares the Armenian tragedy to that of the Jewish Holocaust, well in similar terms the Germans lost World War II, the allies captured Berlin and subsequently all archives and documents. The Allies and in the main the British, consequently conducted the Nuremberg trials whereby there were mountains of evidence against the Nazi Party and perpetrators of the Holocaust. That is irrefutable historical and legal fact.

One main question I would ask is if the British and Allies could prosecute Germany with mountains of evidence under similar conditions why then did they not prosecute those 144 Ottoman Officials, if both are considered to be genocide and or crimes against humanity as espoused to by Mr Fisk, what was the difference? The answer to that is quite clear because there was no evidence of systematic eradication by the Ottoman Government or an attempt or intent by the Ottoman Government to eradicate all Christians or Armenians from Ottoman lands. Why was the Ottoman Foreign Minister of the day an Armenian and a Christian? Is it conceivable that Hitler's Foreign Minister could have been a person from the Jewish faith?

I further ask the British people what you would say if you were held in Police custody for over two years without ever being charged, let alone convicted, only to be released and then being called a murderer by your captors. Being called a murderer even though there wasn't even enough evidence to prefer a charge which could possibly reach prima facie level? But then again there have been miscarriages of Justice in the English system as well, lets not forget the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four etc etc so it is not uncommon for the likes of Mr Fisk to accuse and imprison innocent people.

The British Government in their latest press release declared that the tragedies that happened in Eastern Turkey between 1915 - 1918 CAN NOT be declared to be a Genocide. It is right to suggest that it was in fact Mr Raphael Lempkin that termed the phrase Genocide and it was after the events of 1915 - 1918. Now Mr Lempkin may or may not have known the full story about the Armenians when he referred to those matters. He may in fact have been one of many thousands of people who have been conned and deceived by the likes of Mr Fisk who produce dubious selective materials in support of their case.

I would suggest that it was in fact the British Government who was in the best position to declare whether or not the Ottoman Empire or in fact any Ottoman Official committed genocide or crimes against humanity, or even attempted to commit any genocide or crimes against humanity, as they were the ones in control at the material times. They were the ones who had the power, skills and resources to investigate and prosecute, but never did.

So effectively what Mr Fisk is suggesting is that the entire British Government of the day, during the material times, and consequently all subsequent British Governments had either been liars, morally deficient, incompetent or corrupt.

If I am wrong in the above assertion then I would clearly encourage and urge the British Government to commence proceedings against the Republic of Turkey in any International Tribunal for example, The International Court of Justice, The International Criminal Court or the European Court of Human Rights, in order to seek justice for all of these 1.5 million victims, that Mr Fisk continually refers to, and which again is highly dubious. If the evidence wasn't there in 1918 I doubt very much it would be there in 2006.

Ataman Atlas
Lvl 3 / 16 Irwin Street
PERTH W.A 6000
Phone: (08) 9218 8024
Fax: (08) 9218 8027

Turkish Forum Letter To Robert Fisk From Turkey

To: Letters@... Cc: editor@... Subject: RE: Article by Robert Fisk "You're talking nonsense, Mr Ambassador"

This is not the first time that Robert Fisk writes nonsense.

Anytime he has to make a choice involving Turkish interests, Mr. Fisk takes a stance against Turkey. I will not get into the reason of his anger, but suffice to say that he defends anything anti-Turkish. He can easily brush aside the truth, just to hurt the Turks.

Is Mr. Fisk unaware that Lemkin's definition was not accepted by the heads of state at the UN? Not really. It just suits his argument to pretend not to know. I bet he even knows the definition of the 1948 UN definition of genocide.

When we ask for proof in court the Armenians say that there is no smoking gun, but Robert Fisk claims there is a picture of the so-called Armenian genocide. The photographers name is Armen Wagner. Why has he not taken pictures of Turkish victims, or does Mr. Fisk overlook the Turkish dead.

Mark Twain said; 'It is better to keep your mouth shut rather than speaking to prove your stupidity.' Here Mr. Fisk is proving his ignorance by claiming 1,700,000 Armenians died, in a country where less than 1,700,000 Armenians existed. Just because Mr. Fisk wants to blame Turkey, it doesn't matter that the Armenian leader Boghos Nubar, during the Sevr said that only 600,000 of them were transferred to areas including the Caucasus and Syria. Mr. Fisk prefers to shoot first and find the blame Letter, let alone look for proof in an unbiased manner.

He probably does not know that the British invaded Gallipoli on April 25 1915, just one day past the so-called genocide day. Who aimed at the genocide of the Turks? Was the Ottoman Empire expected to sit back and watch the annihilation of their innocent Muslim citizens from being massacred by the Christians? Is that what Fisk is angry about?

Does Mr. Fisk behave like a racist? Does he blame the Turks, at every turn, just because they are Turks? Does he overlook the Armenian nationalism? I think Mr. Fisk is plagued by Turcophobia. If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck, it must be.

Does he overlook the fact that the Armenians were waging war against the Turks? Was it not a survival war? May be he should come out and say that he would rather have the Turks annihilated, he does not care fo justice - human values mean nothing to him. He is engulfed by anger against the Turks.

He mentions by name a handful of Turkish born angry people like himself, and assumes that he Turkish Government is the only one defending the state view. Does he not know that there are almost 70,000,000 Turks, who feel that the Armenian lies are created by propagandists like himself?

Keep on speaking Mr. Fisk, we are watching you make a f--l of yourself.

Fatma Sarikaya


From: Aydin Yurtcu [mailto:Aydinyurtcu@...]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:38 AM
To: LetterS@...


Attention: Mr. Fisk, Your response to Turkey's Ambassador to London, as well as
your comments about the so-called Armenian genocide reflect bias and prejudice.
You pass judgment on the 1915 events which took place in Anatolia during WWI.
Your unfounded verdict portrays Armenians as innocent, unarmed victims of a
genocide and depict Turks as the perpetrators of the said genocide.

In fact, what unfortunately happened was an Anatolian tragedy, which
culminated in the death of hundreds of thousands of Turks and Armenians alike.
That sad and regrettable tragedy was not a one-sided story as you claim it to
be. I will give you some authentic examples of how Armenian bands of terrorists,
supported by Tzarist Russia killed large numbers of Turks and other Muslims
before, during and after WWI to provoke retaliation. The first example is from a
book titled "The Armenian Revolutionary Federation Has Nothing To Do Anymore" by
Hovannes Katchaznouni- Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia: "... When the skirmishes
started, the Turks proposed that we meet and confer. We did not do so and defied
them... We embraced Russia wholeheartedly without any compunction.

Now, our national psychology is to seek external causes for our
misfortune"... Here is another example: "...The Armenians have been
belligerents de facto... Our volunteers fought...and covered themselves with
glory against the Turks...In the Caucasus, without mentioning the 150,000
Armenians in the Russian armies, about 50,000 Armenian volunteers and others not
only fought for four years, but after the breakdown of Russia, they were the
only forces to hold the Turks in check..."-by Bogos Nubar- President of the
Armenian Delegation in Europe. Mr. Nubar's Letter was published in the Times of
London on January 30,1919. I will give you one more example:"Agitation and
terror were needed to elevate the spirit of the Armenians...The most opportune
time to institute the general rebellion for carrying out immediate objectives
was when Turkey was engaged in war..." by Louise Nalbandian, her book is titled
"Armenian Revolutionary Movement"-University of California Press-1963- pp
110-111. Sir, I hope you will be fair enough to to publish my Letter in your

5529 Ashdale- CSL, Quebec- CANADA -H4W 3A3-
Telephone; (514)-487-7198.


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