29 October 2010

3160) US Embassy In Armenia: "No Such Thing" Ref: Armenian President Asked US Vice-President Biden Not To Recognize Genocide

Dialogue Between Vice President Biden and An Armenian Activist


Updated 30 Oct 2010 7.30pm GMT

The full text of the dialogue between Vice President Biden and Armenian activist is as follows;


Armenian Activist: “I’m Armenian, and I want to thank you for the work you did in the Senate. I have a question. I am very involved in the Armenian American community and as you know we’ve been…”

Biden: “I know.”

Armenian Activist: “… we’ve been very, very burned. I want to know what is the message that we should be giving to our community?”

Biden: “What you should be giving to your community is that we are not backing off. The Turks have to come to the realization of what the reality is. And what we got to do is, you know, this, the compromise that was going on and being worked at for a while… Tell them that it was the ArmenianPresident that called me and said ‘Look, do not force this issue now, while we are in negotiations. We passed. That’s past right now.’ So anyway, reality has a way of intruding.”


Commenting on the YouTube video of a conversation between an Armenian American activist and Vice-President Joe Biden, during which the latter said that Armenian President Serge Sarkisian had asked him to refrain from recognizing the Armenian Genocide on the eve of the roadmap agreement between Turkey and Armenia, the U.S. embassy in Armenia issued the following statement:

“The Vice-President and President Sarkisian spoke twice in April 2009. In these calls, the vice-president told President Sarkisian the United States believes that the normalization of relations with Turkey and the opening of borders would provide a path to a better future for Armenia and expressed the support of the United States for his leadership. The vice-president expressed the Obama Administration’s support for a Swiss proposal for a joint Armenia-Turkish statement on progress made toward normalizing relations. President Sarkisian did not raise the issue of the content of President Obama’s statement for Armenian Remembrance Day or seek a delay in consideration of House Resolution 252. Instead, the discussions between Vice-President Biden and President Sarkisian that were recently referenced by the vice-president were about the need to take immediate steps to improve Armenian-Turkish relations. The two leaders agreed that there should be no preconditions to normalizing relations between Armenia and Turkey.”

The video had generated a harsh and prompt response from the Armenian president’s office on Oct. 27.

Commenting on the video, Sarkisian’s press secretary Armen Arzumanyan said the president had not called Biden, nor had he made the statement attributed to him. Arzumanyan invited the White House to release the official records of the conversation.

“Upon Joe Biden’s request, two phone conversations were held in 2009, during which time the president of the Republic of Armenia did not make the statement attributed to him in the video—either directly or indirectly. On the contrary, in all his public speeches and official meetings, President Serge Sarkisian has emphasized the importance of the international recognition and condemnation of the Armenian Genocide, and urged not to justify the delay of recognition with the ongoing negotiations with Turkey. Being confident that the White House has at its disposal all of the U.S. vice-president’s official records and phone conversations, the RA presidential administration officially gives its agreement to publicize the noted phone conversation records,” he said.

Comments At Asbarez & Armenian Weekly

-So this means Biden was lying???

-As with all Washingtonian criminals, the American VP is a liar. The self-destructive peasants in Armenia’s so-called “opposition” were quick to disseminate this news, as they do with every other anti-Armenia propaganda that is thrown at them by Western or Turkish intelligence agencies. The White House has since retracted the VP’s statement. Is the “opposition” in Armenia courageous enough now to do the same with this followup?

- Joe Biden is full of it. It’s election time and he has to pander for votes. If he is not backing off, how come i can’t hear him use the word GENOCIDE in this video.. Yes reality has a way of intruding. I used to respect him. As it turns out, he is just another windbag, that’s all…

- I say baloney. Another attempt by the obama administration to cover their behinds in respect to their broken promises to the Armenian community of the US.

- I didn’t believe the “sellout” rhetoric before but after hearing this from Biden, Serzh really did sell us out to the Turks.

- The usual empty words.The Armenian president fell for the turkish trickery AGAIN.
Wait and see ,when April 24 2011 approaches,they will pull another fast one .You guys are so naive,to fall for this. The ARF was right from the beginning to oppose the protocol trick.If you guys fall to this again,then you deserve it.

- Incorrigible Joe Biden!
Everyone should take this Youtube video with a grain of salt. Things can be taken out of context. President Sarkissyan probably thought that the Protocols were a done deal when he called the VP. Now he knows that no Protocol can be a done deal unless the Armenian people says so.

Let’s be careful not to fall in traps meant to divide the Diaspora and Armenia further.

It is encouraging that Biden realizes that the “truth” cannot be covered for too long, and nothing can overcome the strong will of a people.

- Everyone, keep up your efforts in fighting for our just cause.

- Politicians twist words and even outright lie as a matter of course.
Don’t believe anything Biden says; like the other writer noted, he could have easily used the words ‘Armenian Genocide’….

- Democrats are desperate, so Biden had to manufacture something … from bits and pieces of conversations … to mollify Armenian-American voters.

- Throughout our history, whenever we have allowed ourselves to be divided by outside interests, we have been weakened and lost much.

- When we have closed ranks and presented a united front, we are immovable as Mount Ararat.
Best recent example: when Turks/Azeris attempted a 2nd Genocide against Artaskhtsi; had we fallen for attempts to divide us then, we’d now be begging ‘world leaders’ to recognize a 2nd Armenian Genocide, and to do something about it.

- Instead, our brothers and sisters of Artsakh are alive and free.

- Thank you Mr. Biden

- Turkey has to have her past in order to have a meaningful present and future. The USA should also review her policy with regards to the Armenian Genocide. I don’t believe that Obama refrained from recognising the Armenian Genocide just because Serj Sarkissyan told him to do. We all know the lethal combination of policies and the dirty politics that go on behind stopping this great historical tragedy to be recognised once and for all. Don’t kid yourselves and most important, don’t kid us!!!!!!!!!!

- “Tell them that it was the ArmenianPresident that called me and said ‘Look, do not force this issue now, while we are in negotiations. We passed. That’s past right now.’ So anyway, reality has a way of intruding.” Joe Biden

- What did the Vice President mean with that comment? Was he saying that the Obama administration was forcing this on us, and the Armenian president said do not force (recognize) this issue (Genocide) now, because we’re in negotations?

- “So anyway, reality has a way of intruding.” Joe Biden. What reality is he refering to? I think a clarification is in order from the Vice-President’s office.

- I’ve heard about the Armenian President calling on a US President to recognize the Armenian Genocide but for our very own President Sarkisian to call Biden up and urge him not to recognize the truth is just plain ludicrous. Did the Turks spend one penny lobbying Washington to ignore truth during the signing of the so called protocols or did benevolent Sarkisian help the Turks out during this economic downturn and agree to do their work for them pro bono?
Have you no shame Sarkisian?

- Either Serge Sargsian is lying, or Biden is. We need some clarification from the White House and Armenia.

- I just do not believe this VP guy.
Now he does not have any excuse, trying to blame armenian president.
That is ridiculous.
We all know what Mr. Biden promised to get elected including Mr Obama and Mrs klinton, they all tricked Armenians.

- And just upon that we should vote for them??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

- Any Armenian who believes this garbage- 6 days before the midterm election- is a FOOL, plain and simple.

- Very well said

- I agree with Harry, what does Biden mean when he said, reality has a way of intruding?? So disappointing.

- Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us!

- Hello ANCA, any comment?

- I think Joe Biden is not telling the truth.
It would be interesting to ask Mr. Biden to reveal “the stenographies and recordings of all official phone conversations of U.S. Vice President”, as “Armenian President’s Administration gives its official consent to publish the mentioned phone conversation’s recording.”
www.aysor.am/en/news/2010/10/27/president-biden/

- If both parties want to get out dry out of the water it will we decided that the translators of the phone conversation did a poor job.

- Every self respecting Armenian should press more clarification of this issue and evidence to the contrary if any… Any one fallowing the events of the now “frozen” Armenian-Turkish protocols will clearly remember how the Sarkisyan administration was using all the resources available to it (legal or illegal) to force the protocols on the Armenian nation, they also will remember how the Armenian administration was playing with words on its position of the Armenian genocide recognition and its fundamental place for the Armenian nation. Everyone clearly remembers that the Armenian president and its administration/ the coalition, only started talking and emphasizing the genocide issue well after they were badly fooled and in the process embarrassed when the Turks cleverly tricked them, left them alone in the room, scrunching their …

As much as everyone knows that there are no angels on any sides specially when one talk about politics and politicians, IE / Vice President Joe Biden, or the rest of President Obama / administration, I think it is the President Sarkisian’s office that should publicize any recorded tape of the conversation. The Ball is in the President Sarkisian’s court and not the Vice-President Biden’s.

- Couldn’t agree with you 1,2,4. Armenian President’s Administration publicly labeled Biden as a liar. It is now up to Biden to clear his name or to swallow the insult.

- Ara jan, lol
You might have had a point if either of the two parties had any credibility or for that matter any dignity left…

And then again, I think after all said and done, Vice-President Biden/ President Obama and rest of the Administration are not the President of Armenia, or have a constitutional obligation, like President Sarkisyan ( chapter11 of Armenian constitution) in connection to the Armenian Genocide. As much as everyone hoped that the Obama administration will be more honorable then it’s predecessors in keeping their pre election pelage, the genocide issue never was nor anytime will be a responsibility, a central issue for them like it is, and always will be for any Armenian president. America’s President is not accountable to the Armenian nation, the Armenian President is. Beggars can’t be choosers after all.

Armenian nation everywhere always has and always will expect Armenia’s President to come true on this issue 100%, may the name of a President be SERJ, POGHOS , PETROS or MARTIROS…

- Don’t be surprised if Mr. Biden tells later I mean after elections are over “Oh, you know guys I was supposed to say that Turkish president called me. I’m an old guy, have problems with memory, sorry about it”. I for instance do not believe that Mr. Sarkissian would have said such a thing to him. But wait and see what kind of noise will ANC make out of this.

- Biden is lying at least in the part where he says that Sargsyan called him. Biden called Sargsyan twice on April 20 and April 23, 2009. The rest is on the record and at least the Armenian side does not object the release of the tape to media. Does Biden have reservations? Why? If the protocols were the obstacle to the US recognition, then why did not Joe Biden do so last year on April 24 when the protocols were frozen beyond repair?

- I read it in Asbarez,
(A video showing an Armenian activist talking to Vice-President Joe Biden was posted on YouTube earlier today. In the video, Biden says, “The Turks have to come to the realization of what the reality is.”

Question: “I’m Armenian, and I want to thank you for the work you did in the Senate. I have a question. I am very involved in the Armenian American community and as you know we’ve been…”
Vice-President Biden: “Oh, I know.”
Question: “… we’ve been very, very burned. I want to know what is the message that we should be giving to our community?”

Biden: “What you should be giving to your community is that we are not backing off. The Turks have to come to the realization of what the reality is. And what we got to do is, you know, this, the compromise that was going on and being worked at for a while… Tell them that it was the ArmenianPresident that called me and said ‘Look, do not force this issue now, while we are in negotiations. We passed. That’s past right now.’ So anyway, reality has a way of intruding.”)

If this so-called “Armenian Activist” character is really exist, then Why he or she doesn’t come out of his Mouse-hole and throw light on this …”Tazzag” (excuse my Tikranagerd language Mr Biden, if not your invention) news? instead goes on pasting the news on a You Tube.

- For this very reason those liars should be voted out, they think their old strategy of divide and conquer still works, taking Armenians as naive and simple minded, though they claim to be university grads I bet they cannot spell Armenian Genocide,

Reality sure does have a way of intruding Mr. Biden. You can tell members of your administration that they will face that reality point blank come November.

- VP Biden is a liar.

- Yes, Biden may well be lying.

On the other hand, what does it say about President Sargsian that many of us think that the story could be true?

And what does it say that we feel that Sargsian does not put forth the Genocide issue as strongly or frequently as he should?

This is where our skepticism comes from. The lack of credibility on Sargsian’s part is his own doing, not Biden’s.

One example is the Protocols where the implication seemed to be that the factuality of the Genocide would be subject to a debate by Turks and Armenians. Even if that was not what it would be, why was it put in the Protocols to begin with? What was the compelling reason?

Sargsian should take this Biden incident as yet another wakeup call.

- Let vp biden clarify his statements and substantiate his claims about what the Armenian President may have said by publicizing his phone conversations with President Sarkisian.

If he can prove it, I may believe him.

Kudos to the yerdasart for asking and recording this question to his face. The next time the VP tries to place his hands on you while trying to attribute his administrations faults to something else, back off a bit and remove his hands asking him politely not to touch you. Tell him his hands have blood on them…

- First of all,it seems that my original letter was discarded;either by the editor or internet moderator.

I had stated that chalk this event as a proof of inexperienced Armenian president and as a win for turkish influence on US government.This is another proof that ARF’s stand against the so called protocols was RIGHT from the beginning.That was a gimmick by Turkey to delay the recognition of ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. Let’s see what kind of trick they will pull out this time when April 2011 approaches,and what kind of evasive response will President Obama give to this .The only president in recent history who mentioned THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE as such was the late president Ronald Reagan;the rest all are/were evasive and no balls.

- Dear Ham. Maj.

You are dead wrong, VP Biden is the most open, transparent and honest of all, his words are right from his heart which among politicians is an extremely rear commodity to an extend that to their standards even sometimes he sounds stupid to them.

Now let me educate you.

The Sevres Treaty of 1920 signed by Turks and the WW I allies; assigning USA as mediator where after US congressional approval and President Woodrow Wilson signature with grate seal of USA alond with a map which clearly has drawn boundaries between Armenia and Turkey with provision of a wide buffer zone in between; to date is the only valid document in the world which unfortunately is being held back by US just to keep Turks tamed, and Russia by learning that by using the disputed lands between Armenia and Azerbaijan are exactly doing the same thing on those two Independent countries.

Later Pentagon did use the same control tactic by introducing a new map of that region showing a large area named “New Kurdistan” which also includes the northern part of Iraq which has large Kurdish population; assigning less territories that what was assigned by above mentioned map to Armenia.

These are all games without any legal basis because as I mentioned above The Sevres Treaty to date is the only International legal documents signed by countries.

Now all above said if we go back to the so-called “Protocol” between Armenia & Turkey if we read it carefully; top to bottom is nonsense and formality garbage except when it talks about the borders between Armenia and Turkey where the language is trying to get consent from Armenia as a nation to nullify “The Sevres Treaty” by agreeing to stay within EXISTING BOARDERS; because nullifying the 1920 treaty requires a document signed between two COUNTRIES only, any other legal document which lacks that condition in one or both sides (which there are some on the table) is not valid to nullify such document.

I’m sure VP Joe Biden comment was based on having that knowledge; something that either you didn’t have or if you are a “Politician” was hiding it.

Now that you got educated, I think at this point an apology to Honorable VP Joe Biden is due, go ahead…..

- Let me get this straight.

Armenia’s President said the following during the signing of the protocols and then restated it again today: the RA doesn’t have a problem with the US recognizing the Armenian Genocide and in fact official Yerevan urges them to do so without delay.

Biden is now saying that we didn’t recognize the Armenian Genocide because official Yerevan asked us not to. In other words US officials may want us to believe that they supposedly misunderstood the RA. I think its safe to say that the RA has clarified and restated their sentiments quite clearly for the administration now.

So now that this supposed misconception is out in the open, what are Obama and Biden waiting for…or is there another lame excuse waiting for our community?

- I’m writing to you as to the most educated person among all Armenians to share with you my finding that among the beings created by Our Almighty Creator there is no such creature as HONORABLE Joe Biden. Armenian President’s Administration publicly labeled Biden as a liar. It is now up to Biden to clear his name or to swallow the insult. My guess is he will swallow.

- Yes, Joe Biden is not only a liar, he is an EVASIVE LIAR!

- Was this a Biden gaff again? Did Sarkisyan really say it? It all depends on whether the US withheld aid to Artsagh or Armenia in exchange for Sarkisyan’s acquiescence about the Diaspora’s rights. Don’t forget, Sarkisyan is from Artsagh and he may have horse traded the Diaspora’s 2 Trillion dollar property rights against Turkey so as to preserve his and the Oligarch stooges property interests in Artsagh. This could be a ploy from president Obama (his father was Muslim) to pressure Sarkisyan to make concessions to the Azerbadeljanis.

I would like the full comments in proper context. Let us see.

- FOR SURE ONE OF YOU ARE LYING …………………………………………………………. SIR, BE CAREFUL ARMENIAN PEOPLE ARE SMARTER THAN YOU. THEY WILL FIND OUT THE TRUTH.

-
I would believe Biden over Sargsyan any day. Biden has a reputation for unedited comments. He gets in trouble for this once in a while. This sounds like another honest, unedited fact.

- Like you were on conference call with them to know about all the details!

- I don’t trust either man, but I’m going to need some proof though if I am to believe that Biden’s comments are indeed fabricated. The Armenian president was stupid enough to agree to the protocols after all. He may in fact be a bigger enemy to Armenia than either the Turks or the Azeris.

- Both Sarkisian and Biden politically are right…..it all depends who “decoded” the genocide word from English into Armenian or ViceVersa …it’s seems to me that “real genocide” word play a huge politics between US and Turkey these days!!

After all this “sensitive” word of Genocide translated into White House dictionary as Mez Yeghern two years ago by Biden’s master..

- This Biden dude is a liar and a shame! The Armenian President never said that and that’s why he has asked the White House to reveal its records! Damn liars!

- Thanks for your attempt to educate us on a historical discourse!
In no way does it refute the fact that Joe Biden, if not a liar, is
certainly evasive!

- The 50th anniversary was a turning point for the Armenian Genocide in the world but at that time it was mostly for educating ourselves (Armenians) and Mets Yeghern was used at that time and no one complained about, later when it started infiltrate in news media of the host countries in Europe and US with significant amount of Armenian population, the foreign language media first and then us started using The Armenian Genocide instead.

We all know that always was and still is a big joy if a high ranking none Armenian official uses an Armenian word in any public event, it elevates that gathering to its highest point, now if some bias comrades of mine allow me to say something without getting sarcastic comments back, We all know that Joe Biden has been around for a long time; now IF he has used that M. Y. Before April 2010 comment of the President Obama; then everybody should agree with me that it is an unfair low blow to bring it in this context.

- I for one am flattered when a non Armenian utters an Armenian word.
However, in the context of the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE on the international arena ,it is not acceptable.If you ask why? because the rest of the world does not know that “Medz Yeghern” is the same as THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.That’s why.No it is not acceptable by a world figure and on the eve of April 24 to say that and NOT the GENOCIDE word.No balls.You cannot defend that evasive statement in NO shape and form.

I hope the truth comes out sooner rather than later;who said what and when.
Bottom line is ,we heard him say the “The Armenian Genocide” during his running for the most powerful position in the world,but he laughed yes laughed at us by reneging on his promise and did not say the true powerful words “ARMENIAN GENOCIDE’.

- Unfortunately we are all still evading the fact that “The Cold War” still exists and by giving the total credit to President Reagan; every night we go to bed with peace of mind.

Do I need to say that it still exists and after the collapse of the USSR in the Chess game the side (I don’t want to use colors) which was hibernating when woke up faced with the sour reality that the other side has already gobbled some of its items from the board and soon after started retaliating to get even in the game.

Having that in mind that those two blocs with some modifications still exist and considering that which side the Armenia nowadays is; then isn’t it naïve to assume that the other bloc would and should dance to the opponent’s tunes?

- Mez Yeghern is good for the moral of Armenians…Genocide to force Turkey to accept Mez Yeghern…just like Shoha, Jews used among themselves and Holocaust in world stage..21 advanced countries use word of Genocide and only one country used Mez Yeghern, which morally is wrong for Armenians!! Unfortunately Genocide word is a useful tools in the world of politics, especially for USA, in order to manipulate their immediate political wills…

Politician like Biden is not HOLY and he does not care for the truth of Mez Yeghern, or “Armenian cause” Mr Biden’s goal, to bring Turks into “forced negotiation” table, where “stupid bird” tried to be free for a while in the land of Ottomans!!…all I can say that no politician is born to be holy, and Biden is not exceptional, even Sen. Edward Kennedy shortly before his death, wrote a letter to Pope and asked God’s forgiveness, for unholy decisions, that he made during his political life…according to Bible we all born sinners, especially POLITICIANS…

- U.S. Senator Barak Obama promised to recognize the Genocide, not the Medz Yeghern, when he’d become U.S. President.

I never ever said to use M. Y. instead of Genocide it is even stupid to use any word from one language in the other, I was just explaining the history of the M. Y. in reply to Grish that as he says himself Joe Biden used that about 2 years ago and I was telling him that it is not fair to say he did it with bad intentions.

Look Greg, we can’t go back and dig the records of those phone conversations its national security issue on both sides and to my knowledge further debate about it to find out who is right or wrong is just waste of time so let’s leave politics to politicians because politics means to hide something from someone to gain advantage and that to me means LYING.

BTW, One thing from video that I wasn’t clear for me is what the hell Biden is doing to that youngster; looks like he is conducting a body search on him. :-) ))

- Please read it carefully I’m not suggesting to swap Genocide with anything I’m just giving the history of the M. Y. which has been used before just by Armenians.


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