I agree with Cem Oguz: Turkey should open the counter-offensive on the Armenian issue. Not by going after Armenians the way the Armenian lobby goes after Turks, Turkey and those who believe that Turkey is right on this issue, but by solid scholarly work.
They’ve offered Armenians to start a committee as to investigate this issue in a bipartisan manner. Obviously Armenians don’t want that because they think they’re .. winning the battle by getting foreign governments to put pressure on Turkey.
Not only that, but Armenians don’t want the world to find out what the whole truth of the affair is, because if the world knows that Armenians, in fact, killed many innocent Turks before the Ottomans decided to relocate them, their cause is hurt.
Therefore, Turkey shouldn’t wait for Armenians to accept the offer, they should simply invite non-Armenian historians to Turkey as to conduct a grand historical research.
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Comments »
1
Minas
January 18, 2008 @ 11:34 am CET
C. Cem OĞUZ is referingin in his article to an article / FALSE news in Todayszaman. Peole like Cem OGUZ should first inform himself better what Rep Schiff had told ..
schiff Blasts Mischaracterzation of Meeting With Turkish Delegation
I am not a Armenian historian or politician. Turkish politicians are in no way honest and sincerely. You are repeating the well know Turkish justifications and lies! Armenians were not killed by “documents and archives” but with bayonets.
Turkey should stop acting in a way as today more than 10 mil Armenians are living in "Eastern Turkey" (Western Armenian/Turkish Armenia or in former Armenian Velijats of Ottoman Turkey)!!
What are you/Turks expecting from “Armenian Archives”. Armenian Archives had been destroyed , burned by Turkish rude nationalists with the Armenian people itself!. TURKISH government knows this! Armenians have never denied the fact that they had fight for freedom and against the barbaric Turkish rule!
What happened to other christina people in so called "Anatolia" were they all "Russian Spy". Or they didn´t want to be "Turks" therefore they had to be killed to create a "homeland" only for Turks?
This is not a crime when Armenians asked for the implementation of international agreed and promised reforms for “Western Armenia “(Turkish Armenian”, after Genocide Turks renamed the home land of Armenians too “Eastern Anatolia”. - If there were no Armenian Genocide how comes when Turkish president Mustafa Ismet Inönü called „Anatolian“ only the home land of Turks the and he saild no other "race " is allowed to claim/declare "Anatolia" as homeland but TURKS! . The same racial ideology is one of the principles of „Kemalism“ and Turkish rude nationalism! - Islam was used by Turkish nationalists as a "tool" to implement the annihilation of Armenians and other christion peoples (NON TURKS) in their historical homeland. Turks/ “palace historians” like you call it “Eastern Anatolia” now! - If this were not a genocide: why after the deportation of Armenians there properties become over night “Turkish”!? - If this were not genocide. Why Turks changed almost every place which had an Armenian Name in “East Turkey” ( former Turkish Armenian. “Armenian velijats of Ottoman Turkey” ) to Turkish? - What happen to the “Armenian Veliajts of ottoman Turkey” which Armenaisn call it “Western Armenia“. How many Million Armenians are living today in “Turkish Armenian” or “Western Armenia?” - The old Armenian Orthodox Church on the island of AKTAMAR (Turks called it "Akdamar") in Van has been disgraced by Turkish. By the opening there were no words of Armenians but a lot of Turkish and Islamic symbols . Turkey was busy making propaganda NOTHING ELSE! - More than 2500 Armenian churches have been destroyed by Turkish in East Turkey. If this was not a genocide Why this hate on Armenian culture heritage in “East Turkey “ Western Armenia? - WHY are Turkish politicians and a vest majority of its “state historians” just lying in every sentence when they write an easy about Armenian Genocide? The answer is : Turkish politician make the decision what “Turkish historians” and journalist are allow to say regarding the fact of Armenian Genocide. Turks get the education to fallow Turkish official lines …
Turks are looking for justification for the Armenian Genocide. It would be nice if Turkish politicians and historians like you could start lying a bit less! Because lying in Islam is regarded as a evil!
2
Michael van der Galien
January 18, 2008 @ 11:49 am CET
Pff, I didn’t even take the time to read that comment. It’s badly written (less coffee for you) and it only repeats the same old propaganda time and again.
Your happy ancestors killed many Turkish Muslims who were innocent because your happy ancestors wanted to create an independent nation-state, founded on a radical version of Christianity, heavily influenced by racism and nationalism.
They were relocated out of self-defense. The Ottomans couldn’t didn’t have another choice: it was either relocate them, or die. Well, since they weren’t quite willing to let the Armenian thugs kill every single one of them, they decided to relocate them (unlike the Armenian terrorists who didn’t relocate but killed their opponents).
Listen: I’m informed about this issue, I actually know what I’m talking about. Your drivel isn’t working on this website.
3
Murtaza
January 18, 2008 @ 2:15 pm CET
Well, the comment by Minas is a typical fanatical Armenian view that has been repeated for decades. All their claims are based on bills brought to parliaments of some western counties including the US by politicians influenced heavily by the political climate which has no scientific base or whatsoever. They need to put forward all the evidences along with their claims so it does make sense. Minas, so you think there were Armenian archives and they were destroyed by Ottoman officials, could you please give us a little further detail where were these archives located and what kind of information they were providing? But here is the Ottoman archives if one would like to get information, not political view or baseless claim. http://www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr/kitap/
4
Murtaza
January 18, 2008 @ 2:39 pm CET
Another comment that I have is to this article, The Turkish view is so solid that Turkey does not to be defensive or offensive. The official website I provided its address above provides all the original Ottoman documents for those who wants to know the truth or research. The original documents are also open to all who would like to prove the Turkish thesis wrong.
5
Lynx
January 18, 2008 @ 3:09 pm CET
I won’t get into an argument on the subject, since I’ve only read about it in general terms and because I have no wish to enter into the general vicious nature of these threads. That said, I think that for now, I’m going to stick to the standard opinion. Though the wikipedia es not the come all and end all of knowledge, it doesn’t really have an "agenda" and is usually quite reliable.
6
Michael van der Galien
January 18, 2008 @ 3:26 pm CET
Actually, the wikipedia entry is false. It says that the EU recognizes the ‘genocide.’ It did, but has changed its opinion and now no longer calls it genocide - as I’ve said on many occasions before, with links - but only a tragedy and calls on both sides to investigate the matter.
As for "standard opinion": there is no standard opinion. There’s a standard opinion among those who don’t know anything and who are influenced by people who are influenced by pressure groups. But among historians there’s no "standard opinion." In fact, there’s a big debate going on about this issue, also among historians.
Do some research Lynx: you’ll quickly find that the "standard opinion" doesn’t exist, that’s one, and two that the Armenian lobbyists are lying their butts off.
Besides Lynx: perhaps you should also pay some attention to what the Armenians did to the Turks? Or is that irrelevant, Turks being Muslim and all?
7
Lynx
January 18, 2008 @ 3:42 pm CET
Besides Lynx: perhaps you should also pay some attention to what the Armenians did to the Turks? Or is that irrelevant, Turks being Muslim and all?
Michael, I know this is a passionate subject and all, but you’re getting testy with entirely the wrong person. It seems you’re entirely unable to keep your cool on the subject. I, at present, don’t have the time, energy, and to be perfectly honest, interest to dig too deeply into the matter. If it was a genocide, ok, and if it was a tragic side-effect of war, ok too, I really have no pre-conceived "agenda". I default to the genocide position because it appears to be the most mainstream position, but I’m not closed to any other idea.
I AM passionate about free speech laws, so laws like the ones against insulting "Turkishness" or calling the matter genocide I think are repugnent. I feel the same way about laws on the books in many EU nations that criminalize Holocaust denial.
But please try to get it into your head that everyone who has a dissenting view on the matter is not your enemy, and is not trying to attack you, Turks or anyone else, particularly.
8
Michael van der Galien
January 18, 2008 @ 4:19 pm CET
Michael, I know this is a passionate subject and all, but you’re getting testy with entirely the wrong person. It seems you’re entirely unable to keep your cool on the subject. I, at present, don’t have the time, energy, and to be perfectly honest, interest to dig too deeply into the matter. If it was a genocide, ok, and if it was a tragic side-effect of war, ok too, I really have no pre-conceived "agenda". I default to the genocide position because it appears to be the most mainstream position, but I’m not closed to any other idea.
Lynx the problem is this: when you’re saying "I don’t know much about this issue, nor do I care much" that’s not a problem, but when you then add - even though I’ve given plenty evidence of that it’s not a genocide and / or that the Armenians committed ethnic cleansing - "but I’m agreeing with the main stream opinion" that is a problem and that does make me testy. Why? Because it’s a very serious issue, which requires one to do a lot of research. And instead of doing the research necessary, millions of sheep don’t do any research and simply accept what Armenian lobbyists tell them to believe.
Now, I’m not calling you a sheep, but you should understand that if you’re not willing to do research required on an issue like this, it’s perhaps wise not to cast judgment.
"mainstream position": of whom? Historians are divided about this issue, with the more respected ones saying it’s not a genocide. The only so-called "scholars" who say it is genocide en masse are "genocide scholars" which doesn’t even exist. O, and their organization is a bit… hmm… mafia-like.
I AM passionate about free speech laws, so laws like the ones against insulting "Turkishness" or calling the matter genocide I think are repugnant.
Again, you’re buying into the Armenian fairy tale. It’s legal to call it genocide in Turkey. In fact, there are books sold in Turkey, in Turkish, written by Turks, which call it "genocide." Taner Akçam’s drivel can even be bought in Turkey.
As for art. 301: it has to go, and they’re working on that right now. To pretend that all those who say it’s genocide can life in prison is utterly ridiculous and a clear sign that one hasn’t visited Turkey and that one doesn’t really know a lot about this country. I’ve been to Turkey and I’ve publicly declared that what happened was a genocide.
You want to know the reaction? "You really believe that? Why? Lets talk about it." Not "O MY GOD SUE HIM!"
Now, if we look at the other side, however, we see that the Armenian lobby is trying to push through laws in countries that make it illegal to say it’s not genocide, as has happened in France.
But please try to get it into your head that everyone who has a dissenting view on the matter is not your enemy, and is not trying to attack you, Turks or anyone else, particularly.
I don’t view you as my enemy, but I do most certainly believe that if you’re not willing to do the research I did, you shouldn’t speak, not to refute the "mainstream opinion" - which doesn’t exist, but even if it did same case - nor to agree with it.
Listen, this is a very serious issue. There are a few things at stake:
1. The Truth.
2. Lands. (Look at the comment from that Armenian person, referring to certain parts of Turkey as "Armenia" this while Armenians are not and have never been a majority in those lands)
Of course I welcome your comments, also on this issue, but when you take a side while acknowledging that you don’t really know what you’re talking about… well… that does infuriate me.
I should’ve worded my comment a bit differently, I’m willing to grant you that, but again; it’s a serious issue, with serious things at stake. You and others - especially governments and politicians - would be wise to remember that.
9
Murtaza
January 18, 2008 @ 9:30 pm CET
Just take a look at this article:
http://www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=1217&yid=4
It is about how the claimed number of the so called genocide casualties has been growing over the course of decades. There is quite a lot of information on that web site if anyone is interested.
Again, one should listen to both side of the story and also do a little research before getting into such serious argument.
10
Murtaza
January 18, 2008 @ 10:18 pm CET
Edy,
Turks have entered Anatolia in 1040, and captured it entirely in 14th century. From then on there has never been an area that is called "Turkish Armenia". Those Cities had/have diversified population. Those ethnic groups still live there except most of the Armenian population were expelled by Ottoman officials because of the ethnic tension.
One should have lots of nerve to claim that Turks have blackmailed or killed. First of all you need to immediately clarify what you meant by "Turks".
The Consule of Republic of Turkey was assassinated by an extremist Armenian along with another Turkish official in January27 1973 but we do not say "Armenians" killed which would be completely ridiculous since that criminal does not represent Armenians.
11
eddy
January 18, 2008 @ 11:59 pm CET
Edited by MvdG: Eddy’s comments have been deleted because he was banned.
12
eddy
January 19, 2008 @ 12:06 am CET
Murtaza
when a say Turks I mean Turkey and Turkish government
http://www.aga-online.org/de/aktionen/detail.php?newsId=248
Press Release
Berlin, 02 January 2008
My name is Mehmet Sait Uluışık and I was born in Eskişehir (Turkey) on July 10, 1959. On November 20, 2007, at Yeşilköy Airport (Istanbul), without presenting any justification but ased upon an order from the Ministry of the Interior, I was declared a suspicious person, denied entry into Turkey and sent back to Berlin on the first return flight.
I have been living in Germany since 1984 and have worked as a journalist and publisher since 1992. Because of my Circassian ethnic background I have been interested in Circassian history and since 2005 have stopped working actively as a journalist and publisher and started devoting all of my time to gathering documents on the subject.
I was stripped of my Turkish citizenship in 1991 because of my failure to perform obligatory military service (based on Order #1956, dated June 7, 1991, supported by Statute 403, Section 25, paragraph ç). Since 1997, the year I became a German citizen, I have been entering and exiting Turkey regularly without incident.
I was not provided with the official reason for denying my entry into Turkey. Despite this, based upon information that I was able to gather from contacts I made, the reason I was denied entry into Turkey is apparently to prevent my performing research at the Presidential Ottoman Archives (Başbakanlık Osmanlı Arşiv, hereinafter “BOA”) in Istanbul.
There is a very simple reason why my entry to Turkey was blocked instead of directly prohibiting my research at the archives. If the latter had occurred, it would have made an obvious statement that would have belied the arguments of the governing AK Party administration that “Our archives are open to all. Everyone’s welcome to come in and examine them,” or “let the historians form a commission.” By using a different strategy and preventing my entry into the country, it allows for the raising of a suspicion that there are perhaps other issues in my personal background.
Recently, I started to wonder about the history of Circassians and I want to write a book about the subject. The actual topic that interests me is “Did the Circassians play any role in the events of 1915 and if so, what?” Also, I have been trying to find the answers to the question, “What was the relationship between Circassians and other minorities during the period in question, prior to that and afterwards?” For the past two years, I have been working in a regular, disciplined manner at the BOA and systematically gathering documents on the subject. A large part of my life during the past two years has been taken up this way at the archives in Istanbul.
During my work at the archives I was frequently blocked in my efforts by the employees, who are known as followers of Turkish-Islamic synthesis (mostly supporters of the Turkish nationalist party). I believe that the denial of my entry into Turkey was the result of efforts by these same individuals. At the airport I was presented with a “Record of Denial of Entry” form. On the form was all of my identification information. This information taken from my German ID card is available in only one place, and that is the Presidential Ottoman Archives.
The police officer at the airport informed me that the order [to deny entry] came directly from the Ministry of the Interior, not from the General Directorate of Security. Based upon his investigation of the issue, parliamentarian Mr. Ufuk Uras informed me that the entry denial did not come from the Ministry of National Defence nor did it have anything to do with military service.
Since the issuance of the entry denial on Nov. 20, 2007, I have made no effort to broadcast this information. I believed that the ban was an effort to discredit the AK Party administration. I had hoped that the AK Party administration would quickly rectify the situation when it so obviously contradicts the government’s policies as stated to the public. I tried to remain silent because if the incident were revealed, it would create an obstacle in Turkey’s relations with the European Union and lead the way to lowering opinion towards the current administration and Turkey in general, especially after recent discourse regarding the events of 1915. I tried to resolve it through private channels.
Unfortunately both my own efforts and those of my attorney to reach the authorities within the AK Party have come to a standstill. I was unable to get anywhere with my efforts. That leaves only one option: letting the public know, through the media, about a mindset that attempts to prevent an individual from conducting research in the archives by denying them entry into the country.
It is obvious what sort of difficulty is going to befall someone like me who is doing nothing other than gathering documents in a systematic manner from the archives, if a government that claims “Our archives are open to all; we welcome the formation of a historians commission” turns around and not only denies that person access to the archives but even entry to the country itself. Nothing that Turkey and its administrations say on the subject can be considered credible. One can only smirk at a statement like “Let’s solve our problems from the past” when it comes out of a mindset that views working in the archives and gathering documents as criminal. This can only be answered with the statement, “Do your homework first, then open up the archives to everyone.”
I want this disrespectful action against me resolved immediately and my work, which has been delayed because of it, compensated for as soon as possible.
Respectfully,
Mehmet Sait Uluışık
Jan. 2, 2008 - Berlin
in French: http://www.yevrobatsi.org/st/item.php?r=0&id=4094
13
Murtaza
January 19, 2008 @ 12:38 am CET
Eddy,
First of all I would like to apologize for using Eddy’s ill and distorted logic bu anyways here it is:
The Turks took control of the Anatolia from Byzantine Empire not from Armenians, so according to your logic you should go ahead and accuse whoever Armenians lost Anatolia to, if they were ever able to control it.
But I have to warn you, nobody is innocent. I don’t know maybe you can accuse Attila of the Hun Empire since he was one of the guiltiest in that regard.
I can swear you will probably claim at least two third of todays Turkish territories including Istanbul
It is obvious that the Armenian accusations and lies has intensified ever since the Turkish Government closed its border with Armenia over the Karabag conflict with Azarbaijan because economically Armenia has been hurting very badly. It does not have any friendly neighbour, it is isolated, it is left out of all the regional deals with other contries such as oil pipelines, highways etc.
So stop trying to spread hatred and response to Turkish Governments friendly offers. Turks and Armenians have lived together for hundreds of years, I strongly believe as a Turk that we can be good neighbours today.
14
oiyican
January 19, 2008 @ 10:31 am CET
It is better to think about historical events in its own realities and situation. Here is some explanation, defenders of Armenian view without taking any opposing views into account should first read it:
http://oiyican.blogspot.com
15
Eddy
January 19, 2008 @ 1:45 pm CET
Murtaza
I have answered alread your last comment (nr 13). but against it was deleted….
creating more "Turkish land" "Anatolia":
http://www.djulfa.com/film/
ARMENIANS:
The Armenians are much older. The earliest known reference to them exists in a 4,300-year-old Mesopotamian tablet narrating how King Naram-Sin of Akkad conquered the people of Armani (the similarity to the name of the fashion designer is coincidental).And in 1446 BC, during the kingship of Pharaoh Thutmosis III, the people of Ermenen were spoken of. The Armenians themselves, however, referred to themselves as the Hayk and their land as Hayastan – in honor of their legendary founder, a warrior named Haik.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/ausland/artikel/780/137503/
http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/
May 9, 2005 Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
Ankara
Turkey
Fax: + 90 312 417 0476
receptayyip.erdogan@basbakanlik.gov.tr Dear Prime Minister Erdogan: A few weeks ago, Your Excellency wrote to Armenian President Robert Kocharyan, proposing a joint group, consisting of historians and other experts, to study “the events of 1915.” The purpose of this initiative would be to “shed light on a disputed period of history and also constitute a step towards contributing to the normalization of relations between” Turkey and Armenia. We would like you to know that a similar proposal was initiated as far back as September 2001. At that time, the Zoryan Institute, in collaboration with the Turkish-Armenian Business Development Council (TABDC), represented by Mr. Kaan Soyak, its President, developed the outlines of a proposal for a historians’ forum. This was done with the involvement of both Turkish and Armenian scholars. The goal of the forum was to create a platform for historians where a conceptual framework would be developed to discuss historical facts, especially as they relate to the treatment of the Armenians by the Ottoman authorities in the last days of the Ottoman Empire, during World War I. The discussion would be free and open, enabling both societies to deal with their past. The forum would also disseminate, without censorship, information through seminars, colloquia, conferences, and public discussions and would make available the archival and source documentation for this subject through the broadcast media. At that time, Mr. Soyak let us know that the Turkish Government was intimately informed about this initiative, and that the TABDC was to take the proposal to the Turkish government for its approval. Unfortunately, such approval was never obtained, we believe, because “diverging interpretations of events that took place during a particular period…continue to hamper the development of friendly relations between” Armenia and Turkey today, as you note in your letter.
In order to help reconcile these divergent interpretations, the two sides must listen to and hear each other. As part of this process, a common body of knowledge needs to be created, so that established facts can help alleviate the polarization of opinions. This, in turn, will lead to the “peaceful and friendly environment in which tolerance and mutual respect shall prevail.” Therefore, we at the Zoryan Institute urge your government to take some simple steps to allow for a free and open discussion within Turkish society, such as those listed below.
1) Facilitate critical scholars educating society about the events of 1915 from different points of view and not only from the government’s perspective.
2) Allow the broadcast of a series of lectures on this issue by renowned Armenian, Turkish and/or third party scholars, who do not necessarily reflect the government’s official position, through Turkish television networks, without any censorship, and with the accessibility to the public for questions.
3) Allow Turkish academics and intellectuals, whose point of view challenges the official version of what happened in 1915, to express their ideas through public lectures, publications, and translations of Ottoman archival materials, without fear of persecution by the state.
4) In this respect, make unequivocally and publicly clear that Article 305 of the Penal Code, which criminalizes “acts against the fundamental national interest,” does not pertain to the “Armenian Genocide” issue, and that individuals who say that the Armenians suffered a genocide will not be persecuted by the state. In its turn, Armenia should be willing to allow public access there to the official Turkish point of view, in the same manner. It takes considerable time to conceptualize new approaches to large problems, which have eluded solution for generations. At the same time, there are many useful, small, confidence-building steps that can be taken on the road to finding that solution. Therefore, we strongly urge the Turkish Government to accept the call of Armenian Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian for your two countries to establish diplomatic relations, with no preconditions, as a first step to commencing dialogue. This would demonstrate the sincerity of your government regarding the normalization of relations between the two countries. Dear Mr. Prime Minister, by such steps described above, you will help accelerate the creation of bridges between various sectors of the two governments and civil societies, so crucial for normalization of relations and conflict resolution. We urge you not to miss the opportunity at this juncture of accepting the outstretched hand of friendship from Armenia, as a previous Turkish government missed during the early 1990s. Please be assured that we at Zoryan Institute stand ready to support all earnest efforts to promote Turkish-Armenian dialogue through our expertise and scholarly resources. Yours respectfully, [signed] Roger W. Smith, Chair, Academic Board of Directors Cc: President Robert Kocharyan, Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian, Special Advisor to UN Secretary General Juan Mendez
16
Eddy
January 19, 2008 @ 1:48 pm CET
Murtaza
blog owner is not interested that you get to know the truth…
ARMENIANS:The Armenians are much older. The earliest known reference to them exists in a 4,300-year-old Mesopotamian tablet narrating how King Naram-Sin of Akkad conquered the people of Armani (the similarity to the name of the fashion designer is coincidental).And in 1446 BC, during the kingship of Pharaoh Thutmosis III, the people of Ermenen were spoken of. The Armenians themselves, however, referred to themselves as the Hayk and their land as Hayastan – in honor of their legendary founder, a warrior named Haik.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/ausland/artikel/780/137503/
17
Eddy
January 19, 2008 @ 1:50 pm CET
Like th eTalibans:
http://www.djulfa.com/film/
18
Murtaza
January 19, 2008 @ 2:36 pm CET
Eddy,
Let me summarize what you are trying to say:
Probably the first Armenian was the first son of Adam and Eve, and there has never been others living there.
This takes us nowhere..
By the way you should stop posting articles by others here, just post the link along with your own idea. I do not think they would delete your answers unless use bad word or something.
19
Deniz
January 19, 2008 @ 8:01 pm CET
In one of the comments earlier, "Minas" says that the Turks burned the Armenian archives and that is why they are non-existent. Even if we were to accept this theory, what about the Armenian archives in Boston, Mass.? They are closed to scrutiny by outsiders too.. Did the Turks burn them up, as well, so they cannot be examined?
How about the many books, such as K. S. Papazian’s "Patriotism Perverted" or the "Manifesto of Katchaznouni" (the first prime-minister of the Armenian Republic) that admit Armenian revolts and treachery against the Ottoman Emire? They cannot be found in any library or bookstore in the United States. Is it because Armenians have stolen and torn up the available copies, and they are no longer in print?
Recent articles by Harut Sassoonian, the publisher of the "California Courier", spill the beans about the actual goals of today’s Armenians. He recommends that the Armenians forget about the recognition of an Armenian genocide — this, after the US Congress chose not to vote on House Resolution 106, thus refusing to recognizing the 1915 events as genocide. Instead, Sassoonian suggests, they should concentrate on getting reparations (aka billions of dollars) from today’s Turkey (which did not even exist in 1915), and also land from the same country.
Now that the Turks have seen what motivate the Armenians, the former are becoming more active — something they were not earlier in refuting the Armenian claims. Any more, the Armenians will not have the field to themselves and spread their version of history as easily as they have in the past.
To get to their professed goals, the Armenians will lie, make martyrs of themselves, put pressure on foreign governments; yet in the end, the term "civil war" (along with its tragic consequences that befell to all the ethnic and religious groups of the country) will be recognized as what happened in 1915 in Ottoman Turkey.
"The sun’s rays cannot be covered with mud". Truth will prevail in the end!
Deniz
20
P. Connolly
January 19, 2008 @ 9:17 pm CET
Yes, I agree that Turkey should do more to get the word out. We here in the West need to continue helping them like this also. It is clear that many on the Armenian side of this debate want only to spread lying propaganda. Their conduct is creating an intolerable disruption in the Political Life of America and creating barriers between East and West at the very time when mutual understanding is the need of the day.
21
Babanian
January 20, 2008 @ 5:01 pm CET
"According to the story, one of these deputies, Burhan Kayatürk, related to Schiff “experiences from his own life” regarding the Armenians’ atrocities of the time against the Muslims. He told him how his grandfather was killed by his Armenian neighbors. In response, Schiff reportedly admittedly said, “I’ve never heard these stories before, and quite frankly I’m touched by them.” It was actually for the first time that he was hearing “something different.”" C. Cem OĞUZ
But Schiff refutes deputy’s account of meeting.
22
Babanian
January 20, 2008 @ 5:13 pm CET
2 Michael van der Galien
January 18, 2008 @ 11:49 am CET
"Listen: I’m informed about this issue, I actually know what I’m talking about. Your drivel isn’t working on this website."
LOL By who I might ask? You are so transparently ignorant on this issue!
23
Lazlee
January 21, 2008 @ 9:10 am CET
Babanian,
Turks too have their tragic stories about atrocities and massacres committed by Armenians, but Schiff receives hundreds of thousands of campaign donations from Armenians and thus, prefers their stories to the Turks.
Truth: Even after WWI ended and the Armistice of Mudros was signed, Armenian militias massacred over 520,000 Ottoman muslims in eastern Anatolia from 1919 -1922.
Truth: After WWI ended and the Armistice of Mudros was signed, Armenians, wearing French military uniforms, called the "French Armenian Legion," were inserted into southeastern Anatolia and rabidly began massacring unarmed civilian Ottoman muslims. The crimes comitted by the Armenian Legion were so vile, and the Legion so out of control, that the French withdrew their support of the Legion. When the French withdrew their support, the Armenians who had RETURNED to southeastern Anatolia fled on French ships, along with the "Armenian Legion" in fear of reprisals. It is actually in 1920 that southeastern Anatolia becomes devoid of Ottoman Armenians.
Truth: Before WWI began, the Ottoman regime sent a delegation to the political representatives of Ottoman Armenians offering to form an Ottoman Armenian under Ottoman suzerainty after the war if the Armenians sided with the Ottomans. The Armenians refused, sided with Russia and got Soviet Armenia instead. Read "Why Armenia Should be Free" by Garegin Pastermadjian (aka Armen Garo) published in 1918 in which these admissions, along with the admission that 160,000 Armenians fought alongside and on behalf of the Russian army behind the front lines in the Ottoman Empire during WWI.
Truth: Katchzanouni, the first prime minister of Armenia in 1918, in his manifesto, which is banned in Armenia, clearly states that Armenian Revolutionaries had already taken up arms against the Ottoman Empire long before relocation orders were issued to remove Armenians from the area immediately adjacent the war front.
Truth: The Armenian Revolutionaries objective was to ethnically cleanse eastern Anatolia of all but Armenians in order to form an ethnically pure "Greater Armenia" just as they did with Nagorno Karabagh in the mid-1990s, when Armenians ethnically cleansed the lands they continue to illegaly occupy in contravention of 2 U.N. Resolutions. Not only that, the Armenians also felt the need to massacre over 600 men, women and children (including the elderly) while occupying Khojaly. Funny how the Armenian present is consistent with its past.
Truth: Armenians continue to ACTIVELY CONCEAL the Dashnak archives from the world because they don’t want anyone to know that their plan was to ethnically cleanse southeastern Anatolia, that the Armenian Revolutionaries who were rabidly massacring Ottoman Muslims were doing so with the express support, funds, and arms supplied by the British, French, Russians and yes, even the U.S. (check out an "American Armenian" named Azadian who owned a munitions factory in NY and sat on the consortium of technical advisors to the U.S. War Industries Board during WWI and who was buddies with Bishop Seropian who was known to be smuggling guns into the Ottoman Empire to arm Armenian Revolutionaries as early as 1909). Gosh, and I was wondering why the U.S. Congress dropped H.R. 106 like a boiling hot potato after all that grandstanding. Seems that all the Entent Powers from WWI, not only used and abandoned Armenians to whatever fate awaited them for madly massacring innocent civilians, but now they also don’t want to have all that blood that is also on their hands revealed to the whole world, but alas, the documents and history is all there for people to dig up. And, thank to H.R. 106, 70 million Turks are now wide awake and shifting through lots and lots of documents.
It seems the one who is most ignorant here is none other than you and your compatriot Minas who can’t seem to string together a single comprehensible sentence in the English language.
Source: Poligazette
