2492) "Turkey’s Modern Method of Genocide" Feisty Turkish Girl

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Turkey’s Modern Method of Genocide. » The Armenian Genocide: The Truth.

Who Among Us Is There Left To Blame?

Punishing the Ghosts of Our Past and Reliving the Transgressions of a Fallen Empire.


A Short Discourse on the Modern Turkish Republic and the Question of Moral Responsibility of Financial Reparations and Territorial Restitution for the Republic of Armenia and its Diaspora.

“Sinless Newborn?”

The sinless newborn is a myth. Every infant is born in tears and stained with the history of everything that came before. Once the child reaches an age of accountability, revenge is plausible. The type of revenge or “punishment” will vary and surely incite social chaos and confusion. The modern Turkish Republic is such a child, she was born with the transgressions of an empire she defeated, and has reached an age of accountability to make right the wrongs of the past. The moral debates of modern Turkey’s responsibility to the Ottoman Armenian losses and claimed ‘genocide’, remain at the forefront of Turkey’s international identity and plague her ability to progress in the minds eye of many. In the words of writer Adrienne Rich, “We are born both innocent and accountable.” The question I pose is how morally accountable are we for the actions of those before us, when there is no one left to blame and the perpetrators are long gone. The empire that once existed has turned to dust and the history it left behind can only be seen in museums and old books. And yet its trangressions still continue to haunt us.

“The War to End All Wars”

During the years of 1915-1918, the Ottoman Empire (1) was in a state of reformism, population exchanges and guerilla warfare as World War 1, the “war to end all wars” was ferociously raging. A pan-Turanism movement (2) that wished to “Turkify” the entirity of the Ottoman Empire revolted against the sultanate. An empire believed to be encompassing too many foreign elements. The “Turkification” was led by the three men who are known in Armenian scholarly circles as the “architects” of the Armenian massacres. (Adalian 2)

Armenian Perspectives

In Rouben Paul Adalian’s essay, “The Armenian Genocide: Context and Legacy,” Adalian asserts that “when World War 1 broke out in 1914, the Jon Turkler (Young Turks) Ittihadist movement saw an oppurtunity to rid the country of its Armenian population.” The opposition to contention of an Ottoman Armenian genocide and a violent response on the part of the Young Turks Ittihadist Movement (2) is that the Armenian subjects of the Ottoman Empire were “bent on exploiting Turkey’s weakness” resulting from the Ottoman “defeats in the 1912 Balkan War,” as well as aiming “at autonomy and eventual independence through Russian intervention.”

Along with the above claim, Dadrian believes that the main genocide “architect,” Mehmet Talat Pasha, made allusion in a “secret memorandum” (mucibince amel) “to certain wartime acts of sabotage and atrocities” by a group of “Armenina inhabitants” (Dadrian 124). Despite the denials of Russian aide on the part of the Ottoman Armenians, Russian General Anton Denikin praised Ottoman Armenians for their “wartime loyalty to Russia,” (Arslanian, Nichols 565), and the knowledge acquired that Ottoman Armenian soldiers were fighting on the side of the Russian Empire aided in the pan-Turanism belief that Armenians longed to create a greater Armenia cohesive with the ancient Armenian Kingdom of Urartu or Bianili in Akkadian, of which the most important place was Mt. Ararat or Baris as it was called by the Armenians. The kingdom is said to have included such eastern provincial towns in modern day Turkey as: Erzurum, Erzincan, Siirt, Malatya, Mardin, Diyarbakir, Sivas, Artvin, Harput, Ani, Hopa, Hemsin, Van, Kars, Zeytun, Urfa, Bitlis among others and of course, Musa Dagi or Mt. Ararat, as it is commonly known. They also claim Northern Persia as a part of the ancient Armenian Kingdom. It should be noted that to date, it has been under great deliberation on how territorial reparations can be made by the modern Turkish government. The latest action taken by Turkey, in regards to the Armenian genocide, was in 2005, when then Prime Minister, Tayyip Recep Erdogan went to Armenia’s capital, Yerevan, to discuss establishing an Armenian-Turkish joint study on the events that transpired under the Ottomans and coming to a mutual conclusion on the course of action to be taken. Armenian officials refused the offer, rightly so, stating there “was nothing left to discuss.”

Vahakn N. Dadrian’s volume Warrant for Genocide: Key Elements of Turko-Armenian Conflict concentrates greatly on the main Armenian belief of the Young Turks decision to “rid the country of its Armenian population” led to massacres of up to one million persons of Armenian Christian heritage, deportations and a final mass exodus into what is now Syria, Lebanon and Iraq (Mesopotamia). This can be an explanation as to the spread out Armenian diaspora from Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Israel, Russia, Italy, South America and even Glendale, California and Yonkers, New York. Dadrian notes that a “xenophobic nationalism, nurtured by atavistic impulses of Turkism aiming at the elimination of the Armenians as a non-Turkic and discordant minority,” are what inspired Mehmet Talat Pasha, Enver Pasha and Cemal Pasha to incite their followers to commit violence in the name of Turkism. Turkism in a sense is a type of Holocaust. Inciting fear of and violence against a minority when the majority suffers. For Dadrian, the act of ethnic cleansing appears as a “draconian method of resolving a lingering conflict.” (3) Talat Pasha right away launches an attack against “separatist tendencies” being fostered in ”the Armenian community.” (Ermeni cemmati) (124) It should also be noted that accordingt to Dadrian’s research, “the partition” (inkisam) and the “dismemberment” (tecezzi) ”of the fatherland,” were of utmost importance, and the “need to preserve and sustain the territorial integrity of the Ottoman Empire on the one hand, and to prevent foreign involvements on the other, have preoccupied the organs of the State.” (124)

Consistent with the Armenian position that the historical events constitute genocide, Adalian adds that “the massacres first targeted able-bodied men for annihilation, thousands of Armenian men conscripted into the Ottoman army were eliminated first. The rest of the adult population was then placed under arrest”, for crimes unknown, simply being Armenian, I suppose, “taken out of town and killed in remote locations.” (3) According to political science professor of University of Southern California, Eliz Sanasarian, the actions taken against women were different. Many women, children, and the elderly lost lives during transit from heat exhaustion or hunger, younger girls were seized and taken as “slave-brides.”

These accounts hark back to something Americans can identity with. Firstly, the intermixing of Turkish and Armenian blooded individuals was common practise in the Ottoman territories. Therefore, a concept of a clean or pure race is incorrect when facing the Turks. The average Turk has a healthy dollop of Greek, Armenian and other ethnicities of the Ottoman ruled lands. The belief that the ruling party, being of Islamic and a Perso-Turkic origin, could rate human status of importance, reminds me of the slave trade and the forced enslavement of Africans, later brought to the Americas. The female slave girls were often raped and every inch of dignity was confiscated. The denial that a genocide is capable at the hands of the Turks, is ultimately absurd. If the Germans, are considered such enlightened, noble and modern peoples and yet very much able of acting out genocide and ethnic cleansing, why would the Turks be exempt? Many peoples within history have committed violent atrocities, how come we are such late bloomers in regards to political and historical maturity? The historical white-wash and regurgetated diplomacy and outright lies are no longer making the cut.

Turkish Perspectives Against the Idea of An Armenian Focused Genocide and Some Other Prominent Voices in Turkish Literature

According to Gunay Ovunc (Evinch), an expert of International Law and Principal Attorney at Law at Saltzman and Evinch and former Fullbright Scholar who did extensive research on the Ottoman Armenian Genocide debate, writes in his essay, “The Armenian Cause and the Turkish Awakening,” during that time period “nearly four million Muslims of Arabic, Kurdish, Turkish and Balkan” ancestry and “600,000 Armenians, 300,000 Greek and 100,000 Ottoman Jews perished in eastern Anatolia alone.” While there is some truth to this, Ovunc dilenates the issue of the mass exodus of the Armenians, nor does he attempt to explain how all those Armenians could end up so far from home, all by themselves with no food, clothing, shelter or experience in desert conditions. Ovunc goes on to write that the “Armenian revolt is one of many by Christian nationalist groups seeking to create their own nations from the lands of the Ottoman Empire,” and the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) had “recruited over 100,000 militants” and in the “spring of 1915, ARF seized the city of Van, and had “spearheaded a Russian invasion of eastern Ottoman Anatolia,” therefore inciting retribution by means of violence. ARF? The Black Panthers anyone? The ARF is nothing new. All oppressed groups will create physically strong leaders who can kick some ass on their behalf. Violent atrocities and oppression can only inspire more violence and oppression.

Taner Akcam, the first Turkish author to acknowledge the event as a genocide, notes in his book, A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility, that the justification of violence in the name of the state and the majority group, means that governments can be justified in just about anything under the guise of protecting the majority. Dangerous elixir.

Author and former diplomat, Kamuran Gurun, Prof. Enver Zia Karal of Ankara University, Salahi R. Sonyel, a British historian and public activist, Ismail Binark, the Director of Ottoman Archives in Ankara, author Sinasi Orel, Prof. Mim Kemal Oke and Prof. Justin McCarthy have all been the most outspoken characters in opposition of the Ottoman Armenian genocide claims and have developed research in similar accordance with Ovunc’s claims of mutual violence in the region at the time.

Kamuran Gurun notes in his book, The Armenian File-the Myth of Innocence Exposed, that “what took place in Van following the rebellion by the Armenians in March 1915 was typical of many towns and villages in eastern Anatolia.” “The stories told by Muslim villagers were all much the same. When the Armenians attacked the Muslims’ (Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Circassians, Lazes, Bosnians and others) own villages or nearby villages, Muslims fled with whatever moveable property they could carry. On the road, Armenian bandits first robbed them, then raped many of the women and killed many of the men. Usually, but not always, a number of women and young children were killed as well. The surviving villagers were then left to travel to safety if they could, without food or adequate clothing. The villagers were unable to defend themselves either in their homes or on the road because most young Muslim males had been conscripted. Only very old and very young males and women were left. Armenian bands, however, were made up of young males who had never been drafted, were deserters from the Ottoman army, or had come from the Caucasus.” (Gurun 196)

Naturally, the history is convulted with truths and biases, and it is not my intention to confuse the reader, but merely to present the two perspectives, or the plethora of ideas and theories, that have maintained from those times until the present day.

In this short discourse, I intend to discuss the question of Turkey’s moral responsibility to right the wrongs of the past, the concept of dirty hands and the “terrorism” by the Armenian group, Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA), the roles Christianity, Islam, nationalism and ethnocentrism have played in the demonization of both the Armenian and Turkish individual, on the part of both races. The dilemma ensues on reparations and restitution.

What I Think?

The illumination and concentration of the Ottoman Armenian losses have been of great debate among theorists who deny the title of genocide for the atrocities committed against the Ottoman Armenians. By focusing solely on Ottoman Armenian losses during the tumultous time, other groups have been overlooked, I will grant you that. I am aware that the during and after World War 1, the deportations and population exchanges were in effect all over Europe coupled with the hosilities harbored throughout wartime allowed for anything to occur in the name of nation building and majority interests. I am also aware that nations with a great propensity to obey are also the most likely to dictate. How can one explain the bones and mutilated bodies and physical violence against unsuspecting Armenians of the Ottoman Empire? How can one explain this well documented atrocity against once certain group of people that got passionate about their independence, at perhaps a “wrong time”?

I, as a Turkish female, strongly believe injustices, massacres and the end result of an Armenian (BIG GASP) Genocide occured against the Ottoman Armenian citizens. I am sure I will incur more cyber space enemies than friends by supporting this cause, but it is my truth. After a long, disheartening yet fruitful research period lasting several months, I have come across substantial evidence that cannot be explained away. The Armenian Genocide has been therefore titled by scholars as the first genocide of the 20th century.

In Dadrian’s Warrant for Genocide: Key Elements of Turko-Armenian Conflict, he writes of the thousands upon thousands of Balkan Muslims who took refuge in Istanbul, as a Turkish author wrote, “Neither doctors, nor hospitals were able to cope with the unfolding tragedy gripping these multitudes of refugees, thousands of whom were dying and for whom there were neither transport means to remove them nor any space left in the citys cemeteries. The number of cholera victims alone rose to 20,000 in Istanbul.” (145) Later on some of these Balkan Muslims were sent to the Anatolian provinces. These Balkan Muslims were starving and suffering from cholera, upon their arrival they were in desperate conditions, of which the Ottoman Empire, then herself labeled the “sick man of Europe,” was not fully prepared for the sudden influx of people from other parts of the empire. Dadrian does not deny the suffering of other groups, but none were so brutally and mercilessly targeted than the Armenians. Photographs of emaciated and sickly people have often been overlooked by many Turks who wish to bury a past they know in their heart of hearts is true. We are nothing without our history. No matter how far we try to run, we will carry the sins of our forefathers until we make reconciliation. Silence is another deadly sin. Silence, is not a method to stay neutral. Silence is a method of acceptance. When the brutal crimes are against you or your people, you can be sure that you will suddenly no longer hold yourself neutral.

I know many can say that in the Christian world Christian life is of utmost importance, and to a degree I buy that. We can witness it all throughout Christian literautre, the Turkish identity is dehumanized, demonized and the worst of all, that I hate so much and continue to fight viciously, the masculinization of the Turkish identity- there are no references to Turkish people being of the female gender. The only references to Turkish women are sexual in nature. For example, in Webster’s Dictionary, the definition of a Turk is a “cruel, har hearted man,” or in Sir Philip Sidney’s sonnets of Astrophil and Stella: “whether the Turkish new moon minded be/to fill his horns this year on Christian coast,” or in stanza V111: “forc’d by a tedious proofe that Turkish hardned hart.”

Sure I buy that the conditioning of anti Turkishness is abound, however, I can also be a witness to that the overt sexualization and mysognization of Armenian women, in particular, by Turkish men. Turkish men have often regarded Armenian women as “easy,” “sluts,” and “hairy.” There is a saying in Turkish that loosely translated says, “You are Armenian, and without wanting to you give it (your cunt) up.” Almost insinuating that Armenian women are just asking to be raped or assaulted. There is also another disturbing saying that says, “You are Greek, you put it (a cock) inside and let it remain there.” Both again complete and utter rubbish, but there again institutionalized anti minority sentiment.

It has been conditioned in many social circles that the Turkish people are barbaric (aren’t we all?) and a dangerous cyclical hatred is made available to youth who adhere to information given about the Ottoman Empire, particularly those youths in the Armenian Diaspora. (Largely what is now known as “Little Armenia” or Glendale, California or cities like Moscow, Rome, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Paris with large Armenian populations) From such cyclical hatred comes groups like the Orly group, better known as the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA). ASALA committed “terror” acts between 1970-1997 in the name of recognition of the Armenian Genocide throughout Europe, the Middle East and the United States, where 39 ambassadors and diplomats were killed or assasinated by car bombs or other methods and 258 innocents of various nationalities were wounded. (Fiegl) As Michael Walzer writes in “Torture: An Introduction,” terror in opposition is just as evil. I am by no means, justifying the innocent lives taken. But I am trying to make the audience aware that when one feels under attack, it is only natural to incite an attack back, particularly from groups that already feel themselves powerless and tiny in front of the “enemy.” “The innocent man is no longer innocent.” (62) He has dirtied his hands with human blood, innocent human blood. No one killed had anything to do with the Ottoman Armenian massacres. Then again the Ottoman Armenians had committed no crime except ethnic difference.

Reparations demands for repair of events that have happened hundreds of years before us prove to be rather difficult to practice, “of the legacies of these pasts recall the important lesson, once taught us by Barrington Moore that even liberal democratic socieites were born in fire and blood.” (Torpey 9) Many would counter, however, that coming to terms with ones history is the only way one can move forward, and bringing us one step closer to peace and making us, perhaps, less likely to act in violence or nationalism again. Some who don’t agree with me, will say this is naieve. Even after Nazism and Germany’s $60 million in financial reparations given to the Jews, Europe saw Serbian ethnic cleansing campaigns, against Bosnians and Albanians, and other Muslim minorities.

If the modern Turkish government has no correlation to the Ottoman courts and indeed modern day Turkey and Serbia, by which war tribunals can be held at The Hague and Human Rights Laws can be enacted on behalf of the victims against the perpetrators then who among us is there left to blame?

In March 1919, the Istanbul government held Military Tribunals by which to punish the perpetrators and enact justice on behalf of the victims. However, German military had already taken Talat Pasha and Cemal Pasha to Berlin for safe keeping. Some Armenian scholars have even gone on to claim that Germans and Kurds were just as active in the violence inflicted upon Ottoman Armenians. During the tribunals a figure of 800,000 Armenian victims were said to have perished. (Akcam 182) Shortly after these tribunals were held, Mehmet Talat Pasha and Cemal Pasha were assassinated by Armenian youths in Berlin on 21 March, 1921. The German courts acquitted them from any charges and they were set free. In a sense both the workings of ASALA and the assassinations of the perpetrators are acts of revenge, right? Wrong. Not all of the Armenian people of modern day are committing violent acts, these were all small groups of people acting in anger and haste. The outright denial and laughing attitude of many Turkish politicians and diplomats is what has really made this unresolved continue to ebb and flow.

Of course, we can say simply that any comment from the Turkish government is mere opinion. One should not feel they have the right to punish others for their opinion, even if it is conflict with their own, others may say. Many might even add that no one is punishing Putin for Stalin’s transgressions, nor Spanish President Zapatero for the Spanish Inquisition. Or even that the French killed one million Algerians during the riot of colonial power and violence, no one is out for vengence against Sarkozy. In France it is forbidden to deny the Armenian Genocide though.

I have come to believe that reparations and restitution today for the modern states of Armenia and Turkey proper include a multitude of problems. However, I do not believe that an apology alone is all that can suffice for the victims. Indeed with an apology comes monetary or territorial compensation. “Talk is cheap.” (Torpey 23) If Turkey were to cede lands historically believed to be ancient Armenia, Turkey would be left with no buffer zone. Better yet Europe would be left with no buffer zone. I do not believe that this is something the Europeans or even the United States would want to happen, needless to say the Turks. This lack of a buffer zone to “protect” not only western Turkish provinces but also to “protect” Europe from the Middle East. The European Union and the United States need a country with the military power and long lived friendship and diplomatic ties that Turkey has with both. Turkey has one of the largest and most powerful militaries in the world. Imagine for a moment that Turkey did not exist on the map, Greece would meet Iraq, Iran and Syria. Eastern Turkey is somewhat of an expendable battleground. I would also add that the eastern provinces are largely populated by Kurdish peoples, the lands revered by some as Armenia’s historic homeland, are the same ones considered by many Kurds as the dreamed of Kurdistan. To cede the lands on which the Kurds are (barely) living on today, would incite civil war in eastern Turkey. This chaotic atmosphere would not bode well for an already disastrous Iraq war, in which the Kurdish question plays a significant role. Another long story for another blog post.

Turkey is a nation of multi-ethnicities and religions (to date 47), some of which have been violently and silently eradicated, pushed out or forced into migration through radical nationalism that claims we are one race. Some maybe say that there is no way to lay appropriate blame, and maybe they are right. But we can still admit to our pasts and remind ourselves that we cannot erase history or who we once were.

We are nothing without our histories.

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AUTHORS NOTES:
1/ The Ottoman Empire was formed by the Turkic tribe of the Osmanli people that originally came from the Central Asian steppe, later re-establishing themselves in ancient Persia. Ottoman sultanate reign existed from the gates of Vienna to Mecca from the 16th to early 20th centuries, leaving their mark on all cultures in between through music, ethnic dress, food and even language. The Ottoman Empire was an ally of Germany in World War 1. According to Dr. Herbert Adams Gibbons (1915) Great Britain and France aided the Young Turks by lending them money and weaponry, “to establish a new regime.”

2/ The Jon Turkler or Young Turks Ittihadist Movement was a movement that longed to “Turkify” the Ottoman Empire. They have been revered in some nationalist groups within modern day Turkey as “war heros.”

3/ After and during World War 1, ethnic cleansing campaigns were rampant and common practise. They were often called repatriation or population exchanges. Similar to the Indian Removal Act or the African Repatriation in the Americas. For example, 1.5 million Greek from Turkey, 400,000 Turks from Greece (of which my family were apart of), 102,000 Bulgarians from Greece, 35,000 Greeks from Bulgaria, 67,000 Turks from Bulgaria. 800,000-3 million Armenians from Turkey. After and during World War 2, 110,000 Romanians cleansed from Bulgaria, 62,000 Bulgarias from Romania, 1.2 million Poles taken from areas of the German Reich, 700,000 Germans cleansed from Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Yugoslavia and Italy, 6 million Jews exterminated, 600,000 Soviet citizens of Chechen, Tatar and Pontic Greek heritage banished to the Urals, 14 million Germans cleansed from Poland, then Czechoslovakia, Hungary, then Yugoslavia and Romania. 140,000 Italians cleansed from Yugoslavia, 31,000 Hungarians cleansed from Czechoslovakia, 33,000 Slovaks taken from Hungary. Since 1948, 45,000 Turkish Cypriots were cleansed from Greek Cyprus, 160,000 Greek Cypriots cleansed from Turkish Cyprus. 30,000 ethnic Turks cleansed from Bulgaria. 2.5 million displaced persons over result of conflict in former Yugoslavia. This does not even include those persons from Africa, Asia, South America etc. (Jackson Preece)

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BIBLIOGRAPHY
Adalian, Rouben Paul. “The Armenian Genocide: Context and Legacy.” Armenian National Institute. 1991. http://www/armenian-genocide.org

Akcam, Taner. A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility. New York: Metropolitan Books, 2006.

Akcam, Taner. Insan Haklari ve Ermeni Sorunu: Ittihat ve Terraki’den Kurtulus Savasina. Ankara: IMGE Kitabevi, 1999.

Arslanian, Artin H. “Nationalism and the Russian Civil War: The Case of Volunteer Army-Armenian Relations, 1918-1920.” Soviet Studies. No. 4 (1979): 559-573.

Dadrian, Vahakn N. Warrant for Genocide: Key Elements of Turko-Armenian Conflict. Transaction Publishers, 1999.

Feigl, Erich. Un Mythe De La Terreur. Salzbourg: Druckhaus Nonntal, 1984.

Gurun, Kamuran. The Armenian File. London: Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1985. pp. 196-200

Jackson Preece, Jennifer. “Ethnic Cleansing and the Normative Transformation of International Society.” Human Rights Quarterly. 1998. John Hopkins University Press.

Matossian, Lou Ann. “Taner Akcam, a Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility”. ArmeNews.

Olson, Robert W. “The Remains of Talat: A Dialectic Between Republic and Empire.” Die Welt des Islams, New Ser., Bd. 26 Nr.1/4 (1986): pp. 46-56.

Ovunc, Gunay. “The Armenian Cause.” Turkish Policy Quarterly. Sept 2002. Assembly of Turkish American Associations. 23 May 2007 www.turkishpolicy.com

Torpey, John. Politics and the Past: On Repairing Historical Injustices. Oxford: Rowman and Littlefield Publishers, 2003.

Walzer, Michael. Levinson, Torture: A Collection. Political Action: The Problem of Dirty Hands. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004.

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Responses to “The Armenian Genocide: The Truth.”

Jason Whitmen Says:
February 6, 2008
I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

Jason Whitmen

Harb Says:
February 7, 2008
Your summation of the situation is one of the most objective I have seen from a Turkish source. I am American by nationality-Armenian by lineage(mostly likely Turkish as well) and I agree that transfering of territory between Turkey and Armenia is not realistic. The best next steps is acknowledgement of the truth and establishing a working relationship between the countries with Turkey extending a helping hand to a struggling neighbor. We can only build a better future, we can’t change the past.

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
February 7, 2008
Thank you so much, Harb. Your message really means alot. I hope that we can finally accept truth, build those much needed bridges, learn from the past and move on in true peace. Maybe even set an example for those other groups that are still struggling. I know I have likely found more enemies than friends among my own by writing my truth, but someone had to write it. Thank you again so much for reading.

Joseph Says:
February 8, 2008
Very well-written and thoughtful. You’re certainly a brave soul and I truly hope you are not attacked by anyone, be they Armenian or Turkish, for what you have posted.

Anonymous Says:
February 8, 2008 at 3:17 pm
http://blogian.hayastan.com/2008/02/08/turkish-blogger-tells-it-as-it-is/

Hurunts Says:
February 9, 2008
What really struck me in your blog post was the unique, genuine, authentic (the list of adjectives potentially continues on and on) longing for truth over convenience and comfort, and distinct awareness that this type of longing is always, always worth the effort (and it goes much further than the specific topic at hand).
And because of that, it hurts me so much more to imagine how quickly the two devastatingly polarized “opinion camps” on this topic could twist, and turn, and stereotype, and strip your viewpoint to conform with their Convictions.
“More enemies than friends” is the sad truth. And it especially sucks that a big portion of the “friends” would identify as such for all the wrong reasons…
But some people would “smell” the beauty of your approach behind the content, and possibly take a second look (whether it means shaking off mantra of denial or mantra of the denied). And that’s the hope.

Best regards!

Alexander Says:
February 10, 2008
A great assessment of real history. I’m happy to know that there are those on the “other” side that share the exact same opinion about the past but more importantly the potential of the future! Thank you!

Talat Pasha Says:
February 13, 2008
I have read your article and you suggest that you have researched these issues I was wondering what you have to say about the following statements and quotes from NON TURKS:-

The alleged “Armenian Genocide” is a lie and propaganda used by numerous entities for political ends. There is no conviction of any Turk for the offence of Genocide or Akin to genocide as that particular offence did not exist at that time. The United Nations to this very day does not recognise what happened in Eastern Anatolia as “genocide” regardless of what many Armenians may say, as a result of being brain washed, and blinded by pure hatred. Armenians today continue to use false, forged and fabricated evidence in order to bolster their claims of Genocide even after it has been categorically proven to be forgeries or fraud, such as the “Andonian Telegrams” the crux of their claim, the fallacious Hitler Quote, The fallacious Ataturk Quote and much much more. If you are genuine about researching this matter I would advise that you read far and wide and sift through the propaganda if you contact via e - mail I will provide you with immense resources in relation to this matter.

A very good web site with full references is The Tall Armenian Tale website check that out first and then e - mail me for books and documents in the possession of foreign governments i.e. The US, The UK, Russia, etc etc which goes towards proving the fallacious nature of their claims. You must keep an objective mind.

“(The) United Nations has not approved or endorsed a
report labeling the Armenian experience as Genocide.”
Farhan Haq, U.N. spokesman, October 5th, 2000. On June 4-7, 2005, at a Florida Atlantic University genocide conference, Juan Mendez, Special Advisor on the Prevention of Genocide to the Secretary General of the United Nations, was criticized for calling the Armenians’ genocide an “event.” This article tells us that the Argentinian “responded that since the UN has not officially recognized the genocide, he was not allowed to call it that.” As reader Conan put it: “The UN is the organ that has established the Genocide Convention. If even such an institution doesn’t recognize the Armenian genocide, Turkey has the right to punish the so called Armenian genocide as libel. That is the right of every nation.”

“The acts of the Armenian army at Kars absolutely disgusted our Americans…I am sure that the mass of people at home believe the Armenians are Christians in action and morals, and that they are able to govern themselves. You and I, and others that know them, know that this is not the case…… We have already loaned Armenia over 50 million and that money is lost……. Armenia turned Bolshevik and repudiated all her debts; and one of these debts was for the flour we had furnished on their word of honor to repay, because they certainly had no security to offer. It was a sentimental loan … and they have gone back on us…… The charge made by the Armenians in their papers that our relief organization was using 80% of all the receipts for work with the Turks and Kurds, is, I am sure you will admit, in keeping with the accuracy of the statements that the Armenians are given to making….. Cardashian came out with a pamphlet in which he charged the Near East Relief and the American missionaries as being the greatest enemies Armenia has ever had, claiming that they, in cooperation with President Wilson, had crucified Armenia… Cardashian… is constantly reporting atrocities which never occurred and giving endless misinformation with regard to the situation in Armenia and in Turkey….. (Armenians) are a peculiar people. They have a great faculty of making themselves disliked wherever they go…”….”The Turks marched into Kars and the Armenians ran away without firing a shot except from two or three places on the hill in the beginning, and this firing soon ceased. Many of the Armenians threw away their guns, stripped off their uniforms and hid in the houses, especially in the Near East Relief orphanages and hospitals with the children.”” Admiral Mark Bristol US Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire during the relevant period.

“The great Turk is governing in peace twenty nations from different religions. Turks have taught the Christians how to be moderate in peace and gentle in victory”

Voltaire

“One should be blind to history not to understand the Turks.
The dignified silence of the Turks against the mounting unjustified attacks and mean slanders can only be explained by their pity for the blind.

…How beautifully this attitude of theirs answers the undignified calumnies.”

Pierre Loti, French writer and traveller, “Fantome d’Orient” (192

(Loti added: “The Turk is the noblest of the nobles. This high nobility is not artificial or showy– it is the gift of nature. The only people that can create simplicity out of magnificence, eloquence from silence, a sensitive vitality from a graceful calmness…are the Turks. The Orient is the land of dreams and legends. The Turk is the eye, the tongue, the light and the truth of that magic land.”

How many people in the US know what the NEW YORK TIMES wrote about the Armenian Genocide during the relevant time ?

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The Ottoman Empire Took Any Measure to Protect the Armenians
Document : The Ottoman Empire Took Any Measure to Protect the Armenians

Source: Felizx Guse –“1915 Armenian Uprisings and Their Results”
The General Staff of the Third Army
Date : 1925

Felix Guse’s book, titled “1915 Armenian Uprisings and Their Results” published in Berlin/Germany in 1925 is benefited from in this document.

“Armenians naturally encountered some hardships and harshness in their temporary deportation. But the Ottoman Empire took unusual security measures against any potential challenges during the deportation. Doubtlessly, many lost their lives while on migration despite the measures taken, which was undesired.

But today, due to the Armenian continuous complaints and grievances, the Western public opinion assumes that Armenians were subjected to oppression and mass cruelty on the migration routes. The Armenian reports were written rather for the purpose of propaganda. Events are always exaggerated and the same things are mentioned in these reports. Besides, believing in everything that Armenians say and accept them as true in advance is wrong.

In this issue, the difference between personally witnessing the events and hearing about them from others should be grasped. As a matter of fact, the report of someone who had never been to Trabzon in his life includes much more depressing and bad news than that of the one who resided there.

It is only a claim that Turks ordered the annihilation of the Armenians. But there is not any concrete evidence regarding this issue. Although such pronunciations were presented to the court as so-called evidences during the trial of Talat Pasha, they were some “made-up evidences” which had been written by Armenians for propaganda purposes and were unfounded. To tell it in brief, not any plausible evidences were presented to the court on this issue.

The really odd aspect of the issue is that the larger part of the German public opinion is not working for our ally but for the Armenians, the enemy of it. The opinion that Armenians were subjected to more unjust treatment than Turks was widespread – as it is today- in Germany. In fact, Turks were in a more miserable situation, because they had neither German nor American missionaries to cease their pains, to remove their distress and to make the unfairness they were exposed known to the Western public opinion.

The Armenians have managed well to arouse pity for themselves and carried out such propaganda for years.”

Talat Pasha did not Give Any Instructions Against Armenians
Document : Talat Pasha did not Give Any Instructions Against Armenians
Source : Tehlerian Lawsuit – Hearing Proceedings
Date : 1921

The below text is the statement by the German General, Liman von Sandres, who commanded the Ottoman forces in Canakkale and Palestine in the World War I, during Soghomon Tehlerian, the murderer of Talat Pasha.

“In my opinion, Juvenile-Turkish government had an order for the Armenian deportation. The Juvenile-Turkish government can be blame for this, i.e. the issuing of this order, but it is partly responsible for its consequences. On the other hand, the conflicts took place firstly because Armenians did not want to abide by the order of the Turkish government for the “submission of the arms” and secondly, some of them assumed a pro-Russian attitude and resisted Turks. Of course, they were sent to war field and got offended as ordinary losers do… The government put the deportation (temporary migration) decision into practice due to completely military purposes.

…Again it must be emphasized regarding this issue that Turkish gendarmerie forces had been in a good position before the war. In fact it was distinguished force comprising of 85 thousand. As this force was spread within the army later, a reserve gendarmerie force, which did not include good elements, was created. …The discipline among those men was very poor. While the events the Armenians had experienced are mentioned about, those conditions have to be taken into consideration. The ones who committed those were not the Turkish soldiers but the bad gendarmerie units that had been created due to need the war required. This aspect should also be taken into account: There was so much misery on the roads that not only the Armenians but also numerous the Turkish soldiers lost their lives because of the lack of victuals in the Turkish Empire, disasters and disorganization. Thousands of Turkish soldiers died there; thousands of soldiers only in the Army I was commanding in the Gallipoli died of hunger… On the other hand, it was previously touched that Kurds were perpetual enemy to Armenians and had murdered them.

…I have never received even a single order signed by Talat (Talat Pasha) regarding the Armenians any time! The orders I received were signed by Enver Pasha and were of soft nature. Sometimes those orders were too meaningless to be executed. For instance, once I received the order to send away the Armenians from the staff under my control. But such an order was not executable, because those were needed as translators in the army. One gets numerous senseless orders in those places.

… I did not see any orders or measures by Talat against the Armenians during the period of five years…

“I see that reports are being freely circulated in the United States that the Turks massacred thousands of Armenians in the Caucasus. Such reports are repeated so many times it makes my blood boil. The Near East Relief (an American humanitarian organization) has the reports from Yarrow and our own American people which show that the first reports are absolutely false. The circulation of such false reports in the United States, without refutation, is an outrage and is certainly doing the Armenians more harm than good. I feel that we should discourage the Armenians in this kind of work, not only because it is wrong, but because they are injuring themselves.
In addition to the reports from our own American Relief workers that were in Kars and Alexandrople, and reports from such men as Yarrow, I have reports from my own Intelligence Officer and know that the Armenian reports are not true. Is there not something that you and the Near East Relief Committee can do to stop the circulation of such false reports?”

(Admiral Mark Lambert Bristol served as the Commander of the U.S. Naval Detachment in Turkish waters and as the U.S. High Commissioner to Turkey during the years 1919-1927. His reports are housed in the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. The following is an excerpt from Bristol’s letter dated March 28, 1921 to Dr. James L. Barton, the Secretary of the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions)

“The countless pamphlets which were discovered everywhere the Armenians used to be, the provocative brochures, the weapons, the ammunitions, the explosive and other materials, prove well that uprising had been planned long time ago. This had been prepared, supported and had been financed by Russia. A project of Armenian attempt against high-ranking servants of the State and the officers was discovered in Istanbul at the last minute. Given that all the Moslems at an age to carry weapons were mobilized in the Turkish army, the Armenians would have been able to very easily massacre the civil populations remained defenseless. Because the Armenians did not content themselves with skirmishes on sides and rear of the army grappling with the Russians: they also swept all the Moslems they found on their passage. The cruelties of the Armenians I witnessed exceeded by far those attributed to the Turks.”

(German General Bronsart von Schellendorf, article appeared in the newspaper Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on July 24, 1921)

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
February 13, 2008
Hello Talat Pasha,
I have extensively researched the topic. I have read all of these quotes (most taken out of context) and honestly, there are more statements of a genocide happening from non-Turks than there are for those non-Turks that claim one did not happen. Also such persons you have quoted were not in the Ottoman Empire at the time of the Genocide, nor do they have any title of particular authority on the subject. So I am sorry but your argument is weak and falls right through the cracks. You have suggested that you are an authority on the topic, seeing as how you have called yourself Talat Pasha (actually, quite sad), why don’t you provide us with some actual academic/scholarly style research?

And please stop spamming me and sending me the same message 10 times. Once is more than enough.

Phantom Says:
February 14, 2008
Feisty,
This is an honest evaluation of the Genocide issue if I ever read one! I’m not going to gush and slobber all over you though just because you’re Turkish, since I think Turks are capable of meeting the same standards of reason and logic as the rest of humanity. I do commend you though for going against the grain and speaking your mind in an obviously honest manner. I am a Turkish-Armenian-American, and I think the salvation of our peoples lie, in part, on people like you.

white Says:
February 15, 2008
I do not believe you are a Turkish. I think you are a Armenian in guise.

“it ürür, kervan yürür.”

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
February 15, 2008
Tesekkurler White ama Turkum…kac kere soylemem gerekecek…Gene oku blogum, mesela sulalem hakkinda!

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
February 15, 2008
Tesekkurler White ama Turkum…kac kere soylemem gerekecek…Gene oku blogum, mesela sulalem hakkinda!

Phantom Says:
February 16, 2008
Feisty, don’t listen to people like White. There’s another Turkish saying: “Itim soyler, gotum dinler.” My grandma used to use that one a lot against my dad.

Alex Says:
February 17, 2008
Thank you for being so objective on this topic. As an Armenian it really hurts to see so many people blatantly denying the genocide, and going so far as to send hate mail. It’s a relief to know that there are people like you out there expressing your opinions.

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
March 12, 2008
Hi “Feisty Turkish Girl,”
I am the one who needs to thank you for your wonderful website (and not only for your writings on the genocide but on women’s rights too).

You know, human trafficking is a horrible problem in Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan and I hope a group of people from all three countries will come together to do something about it. I know that many women and girls from Nakhichevan end up prostituting (sometimes forced to it) in Igdir and it breaks my heart. No woman should be subjected to such dehuminization.

Anyhow, keep up the good work and I hope we will become friends because you sound a great person and I like having great friends.

I highly recommend applying for the International Institute for Genocide and Human Rights Studies Cource (www.genocidestudies.org), where I met Taner Akcam in 2005 and many other scholars. It is a two-week graduate course in the summer in Toronto and they pay for tuition and housing. Just need the airfare and for dinnery (housing included breakfast when I first participated and there was no time for lunch!). That is one of the best programs I have ever attended. If you can, you should definetely do it.

Anyhow, my name is Simon and I am a 21-year-old student in University of Colorado. This is my last semester in poli sci and I am not sure what I want to do when I graduate.
Take care,
Simon

Gökalp Says:
April 7, 2008
Dear Turkish Girl.
You say you know the topic well and read a lot. It is tragic that the first picture in you article does not belong to Armenians but to the Turks massacred in Subatan village of Kars. The original picture is in the Turkish Archives. The way you fell victim to one of the most shameless falsifications of Armenians indicates that you are not well versed in this issue.

See the original pic here down right. just above the last row.
Don’t forget the read the details by the way.
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/8_TARIHTEN_KESITLER/8_1_Ermeni_Sorunu/konular/fotograflar.htm

If you happen to go to the east Turkey Van, Bitlis and Erzurum region. Visit some of our massgraves. Talk to people and ask them about the truth. They will be much more honest than any book and tell you the both sides of the story. If you really want to speak the truth that is…

Gökalp Says:
April 7, 2008
Finally. Some of your elaborations on the topic indicate that you dont have a clear idea about what Genocide means in terms of international law (and that is the only definition that matters). I humbly advice you to read especially about the protected groups. The article by Gündüz aktan may be a good start

http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/turkce/makaleler/makale16.html

you say “I have read all of these quotes (most taken out of context)”. As Hilmar Kaiser also states Dadrian (also Taner Akcam to some degree.) is the master of this practice. If you lay your hands on the original Turkish books you will see that all the quotes he used from Turkish sources are either miss-translations or selective quotations (all! really all of them! not a single clean one, I have done that comparison one to one, the way he uses “iki komite iki kital” (two commities two massacres) is enough to get him kicked out of any university). If you take them at a face value you will be greatly missguided. just like in the picture incident…

take care and read originals…

Kelso Says:
May 30, 2008
Hi, my name is Rose I’m a student at Kelso High School. Recently a few classmates and I have been putting together a few videos on genocide to show to our school. Before we showed the video we wanted to make sure it would be alright if we borrowed the second picture on this blog and that we had authorization from the distributor to use the picture.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Feisty Turkish Girl Says:
June 3, 2008
Hi Rose,
Yes, you may use any photographs or media from my entry.
Good luck on your projects!
Best …

Feisty Turkish Girl Says, June 19, 2008
http://oybay.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/armenian-genocide/

Gökalp Says, June 20, 2008
“Speak the truth, but ride a fats horse!!”
ah also “dont publish the comments that unmasks your ignorance”…
Cheers!!!

# Feisty Turkish Girl Says, June 20, 2008
Gokalp, I am really getting bored with your online harrasment. If you open your lazy eyes, you can see I publish BOTH COMMENTS that agree and disagree with my opinion. I am NOT, however, going to publish comments that are bereating me as a human being, un-constructive and that are meant to dilute the discussion purpose. You can continue to try to block me and report me to WordPress staff all you like simply because you believe the Armenian Genocide is a lie and I don’t agree with you, but my dear friend, I have done nothing wrong. Don’t read my blog if it bothers you so much. No one is forcing you to read it. You are obviously searching for me. And oh, by the way, get with the program and with the modern day and age. Secularism or modernity in political discourse does not mean I have to agree with you simply because we are both Turkish. Indeed, in secular and democratic forums we can all agree to disagree. Seems you have some catching up to do … Good luck to you and join us in keeping humanity alive!

Ricardo Says, July 14, 2008
Good stuff Feisty!!!

Gökalp Says, July 16, 2008
Ah dear Feisty…
I have sent you 6 comments (in 2 months) and you haven`t published 3 of them. If you think that is online-harassment please write an article about “democracy in Armenia” and see what harassment is…

My First unpublished post was like that if i can remember correctly

“I don`t expect you to change your mind but can you at least change the picture just to respect the victims”

The first part is clear I guess. I don`t expect or want to change your mind. But as a person whose grand relatives were killed by Armenians. I am not fond of seeing murdered Turks presented as Armenian victims. I have shown you the original source. There is no debate that the picture is a shameful miss presentation (at best). Is it not my right to ask for the correction of a factual error. Especially when school kids use your web site for their homeworks.

You don`t post my fair and civilized post and keep using the disturbing picture despite solid proof. In return I write some sarcastic posts in your other article. There was nothing in abusive nature. no cursing or insult whatsoever… It was just sarcastic in showing your discrepancies and (sorry to say that but… ;) lack of basic knowledge.

You say you don`t post comments which are “berating you as a human being, un-constructive and that are meant to dilute the discussion purpose.”

I will risk sending my post to rubbish by being a little bit sarcastic but a few lines above I see a post which says ““Itim soyler, gotum dinler.”
Now as far as I understand it is not unconstructive as long as the “other person is the “it”. I will not even go in to the “göt” business.

Still I agree that my posts may not be published as a policy. Yet you must be balanced and fair. It was ok if you haven’t published and did not respond. Now by not posting my comments and posting yours which blame me of harassment you have been unfair to me. I hope you will be at least fair enough to post this one. One must show respect to people’s identities to keep humanity alive. Even an online one…

I have no idea about trying to block your blog or reporting you. I even don`t have any idea if that is possible or not. If someone is doing that, rest assured it is not me.

when it comes to “catching up” and “agree to disagree” argument… I am not arguing with you about your ideas or perceptions. I am showing you that the “facts” that you are using to come up with ideas are unfounded or simply wrong. A fact is a fact. it is either true or false. A definition or an idea derived from a fact is something different. You mean to say Turks are Hitler fans and Nazis because “mein kampf” was a best seller. I am not arguing about your proposal weather Turks can be regarded as racists because the book was a best seller. I am saying that it was not a best seller. You say that “Turkish people are fooled and Turkey is not a democracy because some books or films about “genocide” are banned. I am not arguing if your assumption is true or not. I simply say that such material is not banned!

Your tragedy is relying on propaganda material in “a crusade for humanity”.

And finally I don`t think Armenian “Genocide” is a lie. I believe it is a half truth!

(If you don’t want to post this too at least write a reply to my mail. you owe that much to a person whom you wrongly accused.)

# Pedro Says:
November 18, 2008

Hi,
I came across your blog on the net and I am really impressed, a friend of mine from Armenia is starting a website called Candles and Ashes, its about the Armenian Genocide, but we are a looking for Turkish people to help out as well as we want to bring Turks and Armenian closer together, your input will really be appreciated, this website is going to be open to all people who support the recognition regardless or nationality, ethnicity, etc. (I am of Mexican and Celtic descent, my buddy from Armenia is Armenian and another dude who is helping out is Turkish).

If you are interesting please send an email, or go to http://www.armeniangenocide.com, both me and him should be active there (look for Pedro or Saco or Edoman), also there are alot of Turkish members there who do support the genocide and everyone gets along great.

So if interesting please contact one of us.

Thanks
Pedro

#
Vahe Says:
November 20, 2008

Thank you very much for your good work!
You are just like a heroine from Elif Shafaks book :)
People like you might bring our nations to reconciliation…
Thanks ones again…
Vahe.

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Edo Says:
November 25, 2008

I must admit I would have never thought this can be possible. Woman you are something else you know that? Anyway I am very impressed and speechless. You truly have courage and resolve to speak up like you have. I respect that and my hat is off to you Madam. People like you are what gives us hope and makes us believe that no matter who you are or where you live in the world we can always put aside our pity difference and live as human beings with mutual respect and honor. You truly are a class act lady. Wish you the best in life.

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Vangelis Says:
November 28, 2008
Screamers (2006)

The movie Screamers is a documentary/rockumentary that focuses on the Armenian Genocide of 1915, but also points out the atrocities that have occurred in other genocides through the present. Director Carla Garapedian follows System of a Down, an American rock band with Armenian ancestry, on their tour through the U.S. and Europe. On their tour, System of a Down educates their audience of the horrors of the past. The Armenian Genocide today, is still not recognized by the Turkish government, its perpetrators. On April 24th, the anniversary of the Armenian Genocide, System of a Down’s front man Serj Tankian made his message clear. On stage before the screaming fans, he shouts, “Tonight is not just the 90th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide, it’s also time to break down all the walls of hypocrisy around the world with all genocides known and unknown, accepted or not accepted. It’s time to make the Turkish government… to pay for their f***ing crime!” SOAD then proceeded to play their song P.L.U.C.K., which stands for Politically Lying Unholy Cowardly Killers (referring of course to the Turkish government). Half of the film is concert footage from SOAD’s tour, and the other half is some very graphic footage of genocide, and interviews from researchers, survivors, etc. Most notable of these is Serj Tankian’s grandfather, one of the few living survivors of the Armenian Genocide. In addition to the fact that the Armenian Genocide is still denied by the Turks today, another reason that this film is so important, is that right now there is genocide occurring in Darfur. Some of the images in Screamers are very graphic, and hard to watch, however, it is necessary that people be exposed to the truth. This is an incredibly powerful and important film. A lot of people haven’t heard of this film because of it’s limited release and exposure. It’s a real shame because it really is an amazing film. It also helps a lot if you’re a System of a Down fan.

Cast (in alphabetical order)
Hrant Dink…Himself
John Dolmayan…Himself
Sibel Edmonds…Herself
Daron Malakian…Himself
Shavo Odadjian…Himself
Samantha Powers…Herself
Serj Tankian…Himself

Screamers Part 1 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKWlQUDGV5w

Screamers Part 2 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQhObkoLP8s

Screamers Part 3 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub4FZR60EQo

Screamers Part 4 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAT_OrWBO-4

Screamers Part 5 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBdrZrwclBQ

Screamers Part 6 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBlcgd9oENM

Screamers Part 7 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGmiTjmUpJk

Screamers Part 8 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFiJ2zIr2s

Screamers Part 9 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W09_s5tc024

Screamers Part 10 - a documentary about the Armenian Genocide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IvczKxFYCY

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Yüksel Says:
November 30, 2008
to Feisty Turkish Girl.
You are not even a Turkish. Being a Turkish I hate your lies!!! You are probably an armenian nationalist using “turkish girl ” name. You dont even read real history, my grandfather was in that war! I heard a lot of truths. What armenian and you say is a big lie and France is a mass murderer country dint even paid for murders. They murdered as much as adolf. It was a war and both side killed eachothers. And you make it beter now? We wont say the things we never did! You and france, armenians can say whatever you want. You wont get any peace of stone or any money for that. We wont say yes for a thing we never did!

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Edo Says:
December 4, 2008

To Yuksel. Let me tell you something Turk. She has more courage and honor than you would ever have. She has risen above you, you who choose to blindly believe your government’s lies while she has spoken to the world. In fact she is a true Patriot because she questions her government and holds her representatives liable for their actions. You think that nationalism means to do and believe exactly what your government tells you, but a true nationalist will question his/hers government and demand that they act for the good of the Turkish people and for the honor of the Turkish nation. Maybe one day you could become as good as a Turk as she is. You may continue making a fool out of yourself in front of her or maybe you could wise up, look outside this bubble you are in and learn true world history and discover your identity.

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Aris Says:
December 14, 2008

Thank you

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turkish cypriot Says:
December 15, 2008

i dont know what to say actually, everybody is free to believe what ever they want
but it is sad that you dont change that picture which belongs to our people, say whatever you want, think whatever you want and belive whatever you want
but please just show the half of the respect to our grand fathers that you show armenians

please change that bloody photo and put an armenian one

and edo history is only written by rulers and you know we are not the rulers so dont expect me or any educated people to read one side and believe it, good luck to you while you are learning true world history and discover your identity! :)
i really wonder what you mean, when you wished good luck to yuksel to find his identity

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FeistyTurkishGirl

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