108) The 518,000 Turkish Victims of Armenians

The real hypocrisy and tragedy of this tale is that the 518,000 Turks/Muslims and Sephardic Jews who were outright murdered by criminal Armenians is never addressed by hypocritical and devious "genocide scholars." I don't know if all half-million of these victims' names have been documented, but certainly the Ottoman government workers made a document of who was killed and how, just like any police report recording crimes in other countries.

Of course, deceptive pro-Armenians are going to be quickest to shout "lies," but think about this: in the middle of WWI, the Ottoman Empire gave the finger to the West. They rid themselves of the humiliating Capitulations that amounted to economic extortion, working further to sicken the Sick Man... and the Ottomans were well aware by this time of the futility of getting a fair shake from the . . . . West. Does anyone honestly think these bureaucrats had the thought of making things up, in order to fool future historians? The only reason why this information was uncovered by scholars was because the Armenian propaganda became overwhelming during the 1970s-80s and Armenian terrorists were using Turks for target practice, while the West turned a blind eye... and thus, the Turks finally decided to speak up.

Now contrast with all of the made up horror stories created by lying missionaries and Armenians, and recorded faithfully in biased, partisan newspapers like The New York Times... coordinated by propaganda outlets such as the British branch of Wellington House operating illegally out of U.S. soil, master deceivers like Vahan Cardashian that made Admiral Bristol's blood boil, and liberal and Christian sympathizers always ready to sniff a boo-hoo for the poor, innocent Armenians.

"... Poor devils, no one seems to want them anywhere, and yet despite all they have gone through, I did not see a thin one amongst a good many thousand I saw, and most looked cheery too. The massacres seem to have been a good deal exaggerated ... I don't know what there is about the Armenians, but no one, not even the missionaries, seems to have a good word to say about them...."

Lt. General Sir W. N. Congreve to General Sir Henry Wilson, Cairo, 19 October 1919; regarding Armenians flooding Cilicia, under the aegis of the French. Source, under "A British Observer"

After pointing to another story where the Turks were reported to be be out of control as "The whole story was pure invention"...British observer C. F. Dixon Johnson went on to report (The Armenians, 1916): "When the Earl of Crewe replied on October 5, 1915, in the House of Lords to the Earl of Cromer’s question as to whether H.M.’s Government had received any information confirmatory of the statements made in the press in relating to "renewed massacres of Armenians", he based his information on a report of the British Consul at Batum, which in turn relied on a Tiflis newspaper, probably The Horizon, "an Armenian propagandist organ and therefore quite unreliable".



"...In some towns containing ten Armenian houses and thirty Turkish houses, it was reported that 40,000 people were killed, about 10,000 women were taken to the harem, and thousands of children left destitute; and the city university destroyed, and the bishop killed..."

George M. Lamsa, rare missionary of integrity, "The Secret of the Near East," (1923), page 133


Now what are the names of these Armenian victims?

Of course there are some legitimate ones, as nobody is saying Armenians did not suffer. But the brunt of these stories are from "Armenian Oral History," which is finally what Armenians who have written against this site rely upon for evidence in the letters I have received: "My grandma done tol' me."

Here is another Armenian who felt it was good enough to validate his horror stories on the basis of having been told; the assassin of Talat Pasha, Soghoman Tehlirian, at his trial:
DISTRICT ATTORNEY — The defendant testified that the massacres
took place just outside the city limits of Erzinga. I am informed that,
after the caravan had gone quite a distance from Erzinga, armed Kurdish
bandits attacked the caravan in a pass and even many Turkish gendarmes
were killed trying to protect the caravan. Would the defendant please
answer whether or not they were attacked by Kurdish bandits?

DEFENDANT (Tehlirian) — I was told that it was the Turkish gendarmes who opened fire on us.


SORRY. Hearsay does not constitute as judicial evidence.

Especially from fraudulent Armenians and their mindless "genocide scholar" supporters, who have a track record of not holding truth at a premium.

What we mostly see are things like:


- The girl from Zila
- A traveller madam in Anatolia writing from town X
- An absolutely trustworthy gentleman from Switzerland
- Prof. Y from College Z in town X

Look at some of the "documentation"; Albert Mackenzie, likely of the Near East Relief, wrote in Sept. 6, 1922 horror story account, pointing to his source:

"This extract is a memorandum by a foreign resident in Turkey... Obviously the source of this testimony coming as it does from a neutral resident, is above reproach."

No names. Then Mr. MacKenzie wrote:

"To satisfy myself of its correctness I elicited the story from an Armenian lad in Turkey, who had been in this deportation."

No names.

The "eyewitnesses" are almost never named. Curious, eh, wot?


Lord Bryce


Here's how Lord Bryce justifies himself, in his preface to "The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire":

In presenting this evidence it has been necessary in very many cases to withhold the names of the witnesses, because to publish their names would be to expose such of them as are still within the Turkish dominions, or the relations and friends of these persons, to the ruthless vengeance of the gang who now rule those dominions in the name of the unfortunate Sultan.

Convenient. Also serves as corroboration of how monstrous the Turks were, which is the very intention of this biased religious man heading Wellington House, Britain's propaganda division.

Okay, so he can't provide the names of the "witnesses" living in the Ottoman Empire, since their lives would be in great danger from the evil Turks. However, the Viscount goes further:

Even in the case of those neutral witnesses who are safe in their own countries, a similar precaution must be observed, because many of them, or their friends and associates, have property in Turkey which would at once, despite their neutral character, be seized by the Turkish Government.

Convenient!

In his footnote, the Lord explains:

...(W)herever the title of a document is given without such a footnote, that means that the Editor is in possession of the author's name, even if the name is not published but represented by a symbol (e.g., " Dr. W'), or by such periphrases as " A foreign resident,"

Ara Sarafian, Baroness Cox and Lord
Avebury at the House of Lords


In 2001, with fanfare at Great Britain's House of Lords, Ara Sarafian and the Gomidas Institute re-released this "Bible" of their genocide, with the missing names put in, from Arnold Toynbee's originals. While Sarafian is not an impartial party by any stretch of the imagination, let's say he did a scholarly work in locating these names. [Here is a later examination.] Gomidas describes them as "eyewitness accounts from United States consular and missionary sources, as well as the testimony of German, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Greek, Kurdish, and Armenian witnesses." Then we must contend ourselves with the objectivity of each of these sources, and whether any of them did NOT have an agenda. I already know from preparing this site that the chances are painfully slim, from the descriptions above.

Let's take a clue from Lord Bryce's assurance:

The question now arises---What is the value of this evidence? Though the names of many of the witnesses cannot be given, I may say that most of them, and nearly all of those who belong to neutral or belligerent countries, are persons entitled to confidence in respect of their character and standing, and are, moreover, persons who have no conceivable motive for inventing or perverting facts, because they are (with extremely few exceptions) either neutrals with no national or personal or pecuniary interests involved, or else German subjects. Were I free to mention names, the trustworthiness of these neutrals and Germans would at once be recognised.

We must keep in mind this is the evaluation of a man who likely thought himself beyond reproach, and as a man of integrity. However, he was a Turk-despising liberal in the Gladstone tradition, and after traveling to the region in 1876 (for his book Transcaucasia and Ararat), he developed a deep compassion for the Armenian people... and would become the one Briton most associated with Armenians, beginning with an 1881 talk in Harvard. And now, after some forty years of incubating his Armenophilia, he had a patriotic job as propagandist to perform for His Majesty's government.

Of course Bryce is going to think most of these Turk-despising missionary and consular peas in his pod are going to be similarly beyond reproach. The only way to prove this is to take each of these names and determine their credibility. That likely won't happen soon, because the Turks are largely indifferent (with "neutral" academicians scared off from jumping into this fray of character assassinators) and in contrast to the deep-pocketed Gomidas and Zoryan Institutes, where people like Ara Sarafian get paid to obsess over their reason for existence, there's really nobody to do it. I wish I could... but I can't devote all of my life to this nuttiness.

At any rate, I digressed to the unrelated field of names of the "witnesses," when the main topic is the names of the "victims." But that's the point. For example, in Bryce's preface, he alludes to "an Armenian gentleman in Egypt," "an Armenian girl whose family lived in the neighbourhood of the Italian Consulate," and "a lady who was herself deported in the third convoy of exiles." So it doesn't really matter if some names were connected to these parties, assuming a conscientious job was done in finding these names. The question is this:

The idea, say genocide advocates, was for the Armenians to be "annihilated." If there were real Armenian witnesses to these massacres (and not to say some massacres did not occur), why would the Turks have spared the "witnessing" Armenians?

Would that make sense?

So if an Armenian told a sympathetic missionary or consul (and if these "western witnesses" witnessed anything, it was dead or emaciated bodies, often exaggerated by their own biases. Dead bodies littered the graveyard of the Ottoman Empire; thousands of Turks were dying daily of famine, according to Ambassador Morgenthau. I have yet to come across a report of a European or American actually witnessing a massacre taking place) that 10,000 Armenians were brutally massacred in the village of such and such, what were the names of these victims?

Sam Weems did an excellent job (in "Armenia — Secrets of a 'Christian' Terrorist State") of catching Richard Hovannisian at his "cooked book" figures (from "The Republic of Armenia"), using the same numbers for genocide victims as for refugees. There is no way for these ridiculous numbers of mortality to be supported, in true scholarly fashion.


The English have "heard stories ad nauseam of massacres, of pillages, of the ravishing of women, but none of these stories have been corroborated by a single European eye-witness."

British Captain C. B. Norman, "The Armenians Unmasked," 1895... another "massacre" period employing the same deceptive Armenian practices




BRYCE'S HARD COPY PROOF!

Before we go on to the REAL names of REAL victims, that Lord Bryce and the missionaries and consuls didn't give one bean about, indulge a digression. While glancing at Bryce's propaganda report, I noticed in Chapter VI ("Village of Erzeroum"):

"The number (of Armenian villagers) must have been between 10,000 and 15,000. Of this number very few returned, and very few reached Erzindjan. A few took refuge with friendly Kurds (Kizilbashis), but all the rest must have been killed.

They were escorted by gendarmes, but the people responsible for the massacres would probably be chettis or Hamidia.

One of the Kurds was charged in court for murder, pillage and rapine, and he thereupon produced a paper and laid it before them, saying : 'These are my orders for doing it'."

The Hamidia would be the Kurdish legions first put together by Sultan Abdul-Hamit, whose job was (as genocide advocates tell us) to harass or murder Armenians, in complicity with the government.

But look at this: one of these Kurds was carted into court. If the government was intentionally behind a state-sponsored plan for extermination, WHY WOULD THIS KILLER EVEN BE TRIED? How many SS men did Hitler bring to court, for killing Jews?

Since Bryce got this report from whomever he got it from, what became of the Kurd? If this document was produced, how could the court have convicted him? They would have gone against the law of their federal government!

Where's the crucial EPILOGUE to this tale?

And here's the most important question:

As you know, the pro-Armenians have been searching far and wide for the smoking gun of HARD EVIDENCE of "genocide." The British certainly failed to come up with any during the Malta Tribunal (1919-1921).

YET THIS ORDINARY KURDISH FIGHTER (assuming he wasn't on the officer level) MANAGED TO HAVE A COPY OF THESE CRUCIAL ORDERS??

If there were that many orders floating around, how come nobody has managed to come up with A SINGLE ONE?

Here's Bryce's conclusion to the above tale:

It is not certain who gave these orders, but the presumption is that they originated with the Government at Constantinople.

Hoo-boy!

A REAL OTTOMAN ORDER:

"The province of Erzurum has informed us that a convoy of 500 Armenians who were evacuated from Erzurum has been killed by tribes between Erzurum and Erzinjan. It is expected that efforts will be made to protect the lives of the Armenians being transferred, and those who try to escape 'en route' and attack the officials responsible for protecting them will be punished. But under no circumstances will the people be allowed to interfere. Incidents resulting in such killings will not be allowed to occur. For this reason it is absolutely necessary that every possible measure is taken to protect the Armenians against attacks by tribes and villagers, and that those who attempt murder and violence are severely punished."

Source: "Dahiliye Nezareti Evrak, oda, Sif,Kal,File 53,854",14 june 1915 [Ministry of Interior, files]

I certainly did a wonderful job of digressing into areas I had no intention of going into. Even though this is the rare "offensive" page against the hypocritical and deceitful genocide advocates, it still turned out to be a "defensive" one. That's because the avalanche of their garbage, which they have had the luxury of putting together and perfecting for over a century, is just so voluminous.

Below is a very partial list of REAL victims, murdered ruthlessly by Armenian criminals, almost all of whom got away with their foul acts against humanity. these were the Armenian fighters under such cowardly leaders as Dro, Antranik, and Muradyan.

Even in this late day and age (its early 2005 as I'm writing this, with so much "genocide" sensitivity, nobody cares about these victims. The "Lord Bryce" gang had an excuse; there was a war to be fought, and a means to justify the secret treaties intending to steal Ottoman loot. What's the excuse of today's Elie Wiesels and Samantha Powers? Why do they pretend these victims don't exist? We know Muslim lives are not valuable (ironically, the victims of the Armenians also included many Sephardic Jews... as the Armenians went about their mad bloodlust to ethnically cleanse lands the Armenians were not the majority in, to justify their hoped for "Greater Armenia"), but... THERE WERE OVER ONE HALF-MILLION DELIBERATELY SLAUGHTERED!
A partial list of the 518,000 victims of Armenians


The following is from the Ottoman archives, from a source similar to this one. Related: Bottom of TAT's census page.

ADDENDUM, Aug. 2007: Here is the source for the following information.


"List of male inhabitants of Mergehu Village murdered or annihilated with the utmost savagery by local Armenians who joined Armenian gangs strengthening the Russian Forces":

Names Method of Annihilation
----- ----------------------

Haci Ibrahim, son of Abdi Bullets and bayonet
Abdi, son of Haci Ibrahim Bullets and bayonet
Reso, son of Abdi Beaten and cut into pieces
Sado, son of Omer Beaten and cut into pieces
Aso, son of Reso Beaten and cut into pieces
Kulu, son of Canko Stabbed in the eye with a bayonet
Musa, son of Canko Bayonet in his eye
Emin, son of Molla Hamit Bayonet in his eye
Molla Abdullah, son of Hamit Bayonet in his eye
Ibo, son of Haci Bayonet in his eye
Sado, son of Haci Bayonet in his eye
Abdullah, son of Canko Slaughtered
Ibo, son of Ahmet Abdomen ripped open
Ismail, son of Ibo Burnt in fire
Ibo, son of Ahmet Abdomen ripped open
Ismail, son of Ibo Burnt in fire
Musto, son of Ozu Bullets
Mahmut, son of Seyyo Slaughtered
Kocak, son of Birro Bullets
Musto, son of Husnu Bullets
Uso, son of Alo Bullets
Maksut, son of Peri Bullets
Haci, son of Peri Bullets
Mehmet, son of Hasanali Bayonet
Ibo, son of Hasanali Bayonet
Abdo, son of Mehmed Bayonet
Molla Suleyman Burnt in oven
Mazgi, son of Abdullah Stabbed in abdomen by bayonet
Sulis, son of Hasan Bullets
Mahmo, son of Mehmet Stabbed with a dagger
Murat, son of Hasan Stabbed with a dagger
Uso, son of Avci Blinded with a bayonet
Lesko, son of Mehmet Stabbed with a dagger
Abdullah, son of Kasim Bullets
Coban Abdullah Bullets
Seymo, son of Mumin Bullets
Muammer, son of Reso Bullets
Paso, son of Merzi Bullets
Gulu, son of Bitor Bullets
Murat, son of Yusuf Bullets and bayonet
Gulu, son of Bitor Bullets
Murat, son of Yusuf Bullets and bayonet
Cedo, son of Haci Ibrahim Bullets and bayonet
Faki Mehmet Bullets and bayonet
Silo, son of Abdulcebbar Bullets and bayonet

List of massacred females from the same village:


Kasi, daughter of Huso and
wife of Haci Ibrahim Bullets
Fati, daughter of Isa,
wife of Aduz Bullets
Zeresan, daughter of Amat,
wife of Reso Bayonet
Gullu, daughter of Iyso Cutting off her breasts
Sulnu, daughter of Sulo, Ripping open her abdomen and burning
wife of Ibo her baby in oven
Fatma, daughter of Ibo Slaughtered and burnt in oven
Fidan hatun Burnt in oven
Gulfizar, daughter of Hacihan,
wife of Musto Slaughtered
Rahime, daughter of Mehmet,
wife of Halil Bullets
Binefs, daughter of Haci Kerim,
wife of Suleyman Burnt in oven
Binefs, daughter of Haci Kerim,
wife of Suleyman Burnt in oven
Mahiye, daughter of Ali,
wife of Sivno Slaughtered
Hati, daughter of Haci,
wife of Ahmet Slaughtered
Hacer, daughter of Meho Bullet and bayonet


List of Females of the same village raped and murdered:


Nadire, daughter of Haci, wife of Suvis
Hani, daughter of Kulu, wife of Zerko
Zaliha, daughter of Telli, wife of Silo
Arap, daughter of Sami, wife of Hilo


Wounded males and females of the same village:


(a long list)


List of massacred males and females at Istuci village:


Mikail, son of Alo Bullets
Musto, son of Ismail Bullets
Dervis, son of Maksut Bullets
Musto, son of Ismail Bullets
Dervis, son of Maksut Bullets
Ali, son of Nimet Bayonet
Esat, son of Kelo Bayonet and bullets
Isa, son of Nebi Bayonet and bullets
Cevher, son of Gani Beaten by rifle butt
Ziro, daughter of Hasan Died from injuries
Hazal, daughter of Ali,
wife of Acem Died from injuries
Hamsa, daughter of Huseyin,
wife of Huseyin Died from injuries


List of raped women at Istuci village in life:


Sabo, daughter of Maho Virgin
Miri, other daughter of Maho Virgin
Emine, daughter of Meho, wife
of Sofi Salih
Sahap, daughter of Ali, wife
of Nevruz
Gullu, daughter of Mahi Virgin

Thanks to "Mr. Root," Apr 15 1994

Here is the FULL LIST of the 518,000 or so victims.
www.tallarmeniantale.com/list-massacres.htm

(Not every single one could be identified per name and village, of course. Some figures on the list are estimates. Please read further on this point, by visiting the linked page above.)
-------------------------------------------------------------
© Holdwater
tallarmeniantale.com/518000Victims.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------