January 13, 2009
I write this in remembrance of the renowned Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, murdered two years ago, on Jan. 19, 2007, for his comments on the slaughter of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman forces during WWI ... . . in horror that the police officers guarding the 17-year-old murder suspect, Ogun Samast, saw fit to take a video in which he proudly held the Turkish flag as they recorded their brief association with him for posterity ... in solidarity with the brave group of 200 Turkish writers and intellectuals who recently signed an online petition apologizing for the massacre, risking their freedom to keep pressure on the Turkish government.
Outrages like Dink's murder will continue. They will continue as long as Turkey, fearing the loss of prestige and alarmed by the possibility that it will be obliged to pay reparations to survivors and their descendants, continues to deny that the Armenian genocide took place. This struggle will continue as long as there are no laws in place penalizing genocide denial -- and these laws are needed not only in Turkey, but around the world.
Critics may say, "It is not for the law to write history." That is absurd. History has been written a hundred times over. The facts have been established, and new laws will protect them from being altered.
In 1929, the British statesman and author Winston Churchill wrote that the Armenians were victims of genocide, an organized enterprise of systematic annihilation. The Turks themselves have admitted it. In 1918, in the aftermath of WWI, Mustafa Kemal -- soon to be granted the honorific "Ataturk" -- recognized the massacres perpetrated by the Young Turk government.
The laws already in place in many countries regarding Holocaust denial do not touch historians -- for them the question of whether the slaughter of the Jews was or was not genocide is no longer at issue. What is at stake is preventing the erasure of such crimes from our society's memory.
Take France's Gayssot law, which criminalized the denial of crimes against humanity, and which as yet has been applied only to denial of the Jewish Holocaust. This is a law that reins in the fringe and extremist politicians who engage in lightly cloaked anti-Semitism and who may be tempted to advocate Holocaust denial. This is a law that prevents masquerades like that of historian David Irving's trial in London in 2000.
Irving brought a libel case against Deborah Lipstadt, author of "Denying the Holocaust," who had labeled him a spokesman for Holocaust deniers. Though the judge ruled in notably strong language that Irving was indeed a Holocaust denier, in the absence of laws penalizing this offense, Irving walked free. Meanwhile, the tabloid journalists and talking heads muddied the issues and ultimately drew more attention to Irving's work, which may well have been his intention all along.
Critics will say, "Where will the law stop?" since technically we could also extend this law to include the denial of the crimes that took place during the colonial era, the publication of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, even the sin of blasphemy. Must we forbid the expression of opinions that do not mirror our own? This is a trap, for two reasons.
First, the law would be focused specifically on genocide, a large-scale criminal enterprise in which, as Hannah Arendt said, someone gets to decide who has the right and who does not to inhabit this earth. Second, the deniers don't just have conflicting or nonconformist opinions. They categorically deny that this horrific crime took place at all.
The logic and pattern of the crime of genocide was clarified and refined over the 20th century, with the massacre of Armenians as a seminal event. Hitler was impressed, nay, inspired by the scope of the Armenian genocide. In August 1939, days before he invaded Poland, he said to his generals, "Who still talks nowadays about the extermination of the Armenians?"
It was a genocidal test firing. It was the basis for the Allies' use of the phrase "crimes against humanity" in their May 24, 1915 statement regarding the massacre of Armenians "with the connivance and help of the Ottoman authorities." It was a reference for the Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin -- who coined the term "genocide" and is responsible for developing our understanding of this crime -- when he was incorporating the definition of "genocide" into the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
I have spent some time perusing the Armenian genocide deniers' literature, which is remarkably similar to the literature on the destruction of the Jews. The same arguments minimizing the number of deaths ("sure, there were some, but not as many as they say") and the same reversing of roles -- just as Holocaust deniers render the Jews responsible for the war and their own martyrdom, their Turkish counterparts claim the Armenians betrayed the Ottomans by allying with the Russians, thus sealing their own fate.
Some may ask, "Can't the truth defend itself?" No, I am afraid not. Consider that in 1942, Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, ordered the formation of Sonderkommando 1005, whose mission it was to dig up the dead, to burn their bodies and dispose of the ashes. In one of his memoirs of the camps, Primo Levi recalled that the SS militiamen enjoyed admonishing their prisoners that when the war was over, there would not be a single Jew left to testify and if by chance one did survive, they would do whatever was necessary to make sure his testimony would not be believed.
A similar logic drives those who proclaim to Armenians, "No, your brothers and sisters are not dead. Your parents, grandparents and great-great-grandparents are not dead, as you're so foolishly claiming." Such statements betray the absolute, insane hatred they harbor, against which factual evidence and debate are useless and the truth is impotent.
Laws prohibiting Holocaust denial are expressions of the fact that genocide, a perfect crime, leaves no traces. In fact, the obliteration of those traces is genocide's final phase. Holocaust deniers are not merely expressing an opinion; they are perpetrating a crime.
Bernard-Henri Levy's new book, Left in Dark Times: A Stand Against The New Barbarism, was published in September by Random House. This article was translated from the French by Sara Sugihara.
© The New York Times Syndicate 2009
Comments:
| Posted by James
1 of 130
i find it quite interesting that there are so many developed countries in the world which recognize the armenian genocide yet the united states does not. merely a few weeks ago CNN reporter Amanpour had a special program which was to reflect on genocide and the worlds reactions to it. unfortunately i saw barely anything in the report about the armenian genocide and particularly disturbing was the exclusion of the active denial that the turkish government engages in. The armenian genocide is not merely "not admitted to" but there is out right historical revisionists out there paid by the turkish nation to spread lies and teach a false history in american universities. Its a shame when it happens anywhere but when Hrant Dink had to courage to speak out in turkey when faced with endless death threats, then there is no reason for american journalists and politicians to be in fear. The united states will not be blackmailed by foreign countries especially when the fate of humanity and the human civilization is at stake everytime that we deny the inhumanities of man against man.
| Posted by Anoosh
2 of 130
Bravo Mr. Levy. Your piece lays out with absolute clarity why recognition of the Armenian Genocide is so vitally important. Very well said.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
3 of 130
Levy's comments are biased, erroneous, and incomplete. The truth is not in what Levy says, but what he doesn't say. He doesn't tell you that Armenians toop up arms against their government, used their women and children as cover and later as human shields, resorted to terrorism, and perhaps worst of all, treason. Armenians demanded lands where they were a minority and tried to enforce their demands by the use of violence against Muslim, mostly Turkish, women and children. When the Armenians finally took by force the city of Van from their own government and turned it over to the invading enemy, the Tsarist Russian armies, TERESET (temporary resettlement order) was issued, as a wartime home security measure. Levy must answer this: Did Jews establish Jewish armies behind German lines and rsort to mass scale rebellion, terrorism, and treason, in order to establish a Jewish state on German soil? Of course, not. But Armenians committed all of those heinous crimes in the Ottoman Empire. Levy's comments, therefore, are an insult to the silent memory of 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis. "Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 Since when is defending one's home considered a genocide? Ergun KIRLIKOVALI Son of Turkish-survivors from both maternal and paternal sides Western Regional Director Federation Of Turkish-American Assoc., New York www.turkla.com
| Posted by AmericanGuy
4 of 130
Herni Levy's logic is circular and his "facts" are deceitful and misleading.
1. The Turks do not deny that the the crimes against the Armenians "took place at all". They only reject the use of the "genocide" label in describing the whole episode. If Henri Levy's position were truly so unassailable he would not have to make such misleading statements.
2. The supposed Hitler quote which he repeats has been shown to be unauthentic and is rejected by the highest scholars; he presents it as an undisputed "fact".
3. Contrary to Levy's allegation, opponents of the "genocide" label for this event do not base their objections on the number of deaths saying there were "not as many as they say". The objection is based primarily on the provocation by Armenian Revolutionaries. The well-documented inflated death count is merely a peripheral objection.
4. Levy's comments insinuate that the Christian Armenian's treasonous correspondence and collaboration with "Holy Russia" was negligible. In fact this collaboration resulted in huge numbers of non-combatant civilian deaths for the Turks. Levy denies this yet he accuses his ideological opponents of being "Deniers".
5. Levy's constant appeal to comparisons with SS men, Heinrich Himmler, David Irving, Holocaust deniers ...etc... only expose the hollowness and weakness of his position.
But the worst problem with the arguments of Levy who, it should be mentioned, holds a degree in Philosophy, is that his argument is circular. His argument in favor of a "Genocide Denial" law fails to recognize the fact that courts -not propagandists- decide whether a genocide has occurred. In the case of the Holocaust, a court was convened to examine all evidence with due regard for the rules of evidence following a procedure specifically intended to eliminate the influence of propagandists. The "Genocide Denial" laws which Armenians have argued for do not include provision for due process in deciding whether and how the "genocide" label should be applied. "Everybody knows" is not a sufficient proof. He argues that "Deniers" of the "genocide" claims of Armenian Propagandists must be punished on the grounds that "we all know" it was "genocide". No, we don't. There is a long list of authoritative, established Western Historians who reject the "genocide" label for the 1915 events.
| Posted by jda
5 of 130
I think Turkish society is becoming freer because one can publish articles without prior restraint showing solidarity with Armenain suffering, even in support of the Genocide thesis. The problems arise under Turkish law, which allows one to be prosecuted for support of the Genocide thesis, or anything any person feels insults Turkish history or people. Of even more concern is the Turkish government teaching its young systematically, since 2003 that Armenians killed 3M Turks. What grieves me most is that today there are multiple Turkish websites (Turkish Forum, turkla, etc.) which discuss Armenians of 1915 and of today in exactly the same way Nazis discussed Jews: that they are and were "traitors", that they "backstabbed" Moslems, that they are avaricious, liars, you get the flavor. You can read these things, sad to say, for yourself. For a dose of this statist racism, google the writings of a prominent Turkish-American columnist, Ergun Kirlikovali, who champions today the view that only 8,000 Armenians were murdered, saying they died in "feuds". He has gone so far as to joke about their deaths, comparing the deaths to the deaths of flies, in a blog on the Pasadena Star website, post 173, concerning his unsuccessful effort to promote a candidate for Congress, named Hahn.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
6 of 130
Why are you censoring my comments? You may like me or dislike me, but you should respect my opinion. Please post what I submitted this morning. Levy's outburst is biased, erroneous, and misleading. He takes Armenian claims at face value with no regard for Armenian rebellions, terrorism, treason, territorial demands, and the Turkish losses at Armenian hands which led to the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of the suspected Armenians. That same TERESET, a wartime defensive measure taken purely for home security reasons, is deliberately misrepresented to the unsuspecting reader as genocide. Since when defending one's home considered a crime? Ergun Kirlikovali Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal sides www.turkla.com
| Posted by jda
7 of 130
As if on cue, Mr. Kirlikovali has posted here just the types of remarks which Bernard-Henri Levy likens to Nazi and Holocaust Denialist propoganda: No Armenians died to speak of, but as traitors and backstabbers they got what they deserved. But Kirlikovali is only a small particle of an impressive Turkish and Ottoman attack machine which for over 94 years has done everything it can do to suppress even the discussion of the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek Genocides. The problem now is that the machine must focus not only on Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, French and Americans, not to mention the historical record, but also on its own people, such as a growing number of Turkish scholars who conclude that a Genocide occurred, and the 26,000 brave Turks who signed the apology petition three weeks ago. From at least 1935 through today, the Turkish state has done what it could - and as a major nation it can do a lot - to suppress in this country the open debate of the Armenian, Assyrian and Pontic and other Greek Genocides, including the Greeks of Smyrna. In 1934, Turkish ambasador Ertegun openly threatened MGM and warned the United States Department of State of a bad Turkish reaction if Franz Werfel's book The 40 Days of Musa Dagh (a true account of how 5,000 Armenian villagers held off a murderous Ottoman Army until rescued by French warships) was made into a film. It worked. The film was not made. And, we have seen the Turkish state threaten the United States time and time again if the House merely passes a resolution calling the events of 1915-1923 a Genocide, something Ronald Reagen did while President. Our "ally" interferes with our democracy every day. A favorite technique is to attribute Armenian deaths to "civil war". However, even the Denialists' current favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, wrote in his 2005 book that this claim is a "travesty of history", and he approved a Turkish historian's conclusion that the Armenians suffered "colossal crimes" throughout Anatolia and beyond at the hands of the Ottomans. Lewy concluded that this "civil war" mainstay of Turkish-American lobbying efforts is without historical conscience. Page 122 of his work, which otherwise denies Genocide on the theory that the Ottoman leaders were too disorganized to pull it off. Today in the United States, Genocide Denial uses a folksy and "aw shucks" demeanor. The Turks have hired disgraced former House Republican Bob Livingstone to tell Americans just what didn't happen: that somehow, hundreds of thousands of unarmed civilians who died at the hands of Ottoman state actors while under guard on deportation marches were actually "civil war" combatants. The Turkish state figures that a little bit of mud will confuse things. I urge you all to read what the Turkish state says, and how its leading politicians and "historians" to this day refer to Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians as "the enemy".
| Posted by John
8 of 130
And of course the deniers immediately come out of the woodwork... Mr. Krilikovali's mentality is still genocidal: If someone is organizing armies to fight against you, then you slaughter the entire civilian population of that someone. What did the Armenian women and children have to do with Armenian self-defense forces operating against Turkish and Kurdish death squads? Furthermore, why was my gradnfather's family, like hundreds of thousands like his living in and around Istambul, away from any miliary activity, away form the Russian front, subjected to the "deportation" and the ensuing slaughter??? I think Mr. Kirlkovali, as a bearer of this uniquely genocidal mentality, is qualified to answer the question.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
9 of 130
jda is an Armenian cyber-stalker who like to post convoluted messages insulting, libeling, ridiculing, and/or even threatening me. He must be upset at me for asking him two questions he could never respond:
1- How many Muslims, mostly Turks, did Armenian kill during World War One?
2- Were Armenian clergymen physically involved in those raids and killings?
I ignore the rest of jda's falsifications and misrepresentations about me. I always write my full name and never hide behind obscure intials or fake names. Let the readers judge who to trust: the tricky Armenian or the honest Turk.
Ergun Kirlikovali
Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides
www.turkla.com
| Posted by Armen Manukyan
10 of 130
Please get a life Mr. Kirlikovali. This is already the third forum you have disrupted in the past 2 weeks with your mindless drivel and denial of the Armenian Genocide. Already enough scholars have put this issue to rest and the consensus is, a genocide indeed happened and the Turks are to blame. I'm not surprised how handicapped you are with all this propaganda you have been raised with.
| Posted by tigran
11 of 130
its funny when people justify the killing of my people by treason. first of all, there has been no evidence of a large scale collective rebellion. people dont want to die like sheep, that why they fight back. the same happened in the jewish gulags. second to say that armenians joined and faught witht the russians was warrant enough for deportations is insane. what most people dont know is that there were more jews and azeris serving in the russian army than any group of armenians. why werent jews and azeris "reloacted"? the fact remains clear genocide denial is present all over the world. it is happening today in darfur, turkey, japan, russia, the list goes on. and one needs to ask "why"? but i dont feel the need any more to privide facts and figures. deniers will always deny. that is what they do. i know what happened, and most respected historians know what happened too. i dont need the recognition of a turk to justify myself!
| Posted by burcu
12 of 130
I disagree as a Turkish academic with any laws prohibiting speech apart from inciting violence,inducing fraud, or other wrongful conduct. I agree utterly with the evil of Genocide denial in the cases of Armenians and our other perished minorities. To quote Berktay,a Turkish historian, I am full of revulsion at my former government's denials.I am even more disgusted at my countrymen in this nation who kill the Armenian dead of 1915 over and over. Honoring what is good in our culture does not require hating Anyone.
| Posted by Zareh
13 of 130
Thank you Mr. Levy for your article. It is a sad truth that the cozy political relationship Turkey has enjoyed with the West, with a good measure of periodic bullying, has enabled successive Turkish governments to make a mockery out of an in-your-face truth of the systematic destruction of the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, only to be patted on the back by the West, led famously by successive US administrations. This in turn seems to have given the Turks more freedom to be even more bolder in their officially sanctioned lies. But today, all of a sudden, we have witnessed these brave Turkish individuals who decided enough was enough with lies and defied a long held erroneous, if not altogether fictitious, views of Turkish "innocence" towards the Armenians, brainwashed into the Turkish public consciousness for so many decades. More than 200 writers and academics issued an apology to the Armenians for their suffering and having been unjustly ignored for almost a century. BRAVO to them! Within a month almost 27000 signatures have been collected. This apology that does not even mention the word "genocide" of course does not sit well with Turks who have imbedded hatred towards the Armenians and use every opportunity to attack all those who do not agree with them, now apparently it is in you who they see a biased and an unjust individual. How pitifully sad indeed. As much as I believe in absolute freedom of speech, I find the harsh measure of making it illegal to deny the Armenian genocide an effective tool against a well-financed anti-Armenian campaign of the Turkish government. A law that punishes the denial of the Armenian genocide is an unfortunate necessity, at least at this stage of the struggle when one sees how Turkey bullies the entire NATO alliance into submission on this issue. One hopes such legal norms would be rendered as obsolete once the Turkish government listens to its intellectuals, its people and puts an end to futile attempts to deny the undeniable and finally apologizes to the Armenian people for the Genocide of 1915 and paves the way for a truly lasting peace and friendship.
| Posted by akasya
14 of 130
1. The Armenians are sure that Armenian genocide really occured and claim that Turkey does not want to face with her history. On the other hand, they persistently refuse Turkey's suggestions to discuss these events together with historians from both sides, in spite of this claim. For example: *In 2004, the Viennese Armenian-Turkish Platform (VAT) was founded to exchange documents about the 1915 events by Austrian, Turkish and Armenian historians. After receiving 100 Turkish documents, the Armenians refused to send their documents which they promised, to the Turkish historians and afterwards the Armenian foreign minister announced that they did not want to discuss the 1915 events with historians. *Armenia refused the Turkish prime minister's and the Turkish Assembly's invitation announced on April 13, 2005 which suggested to establish a Joint Commission composed of historians from both sides and discuss the events which took place during the 1st World War. *Turkey sent full page ads to five popular newspapers of the United States (US) calling on Armenia to 'bring light the events of 1915 together with Turkey and to establish a joint commission composed of historians from both sides in addition to historians from other nations', in April 2007. *And the Turkish prime minister repeated the same invitation on February 2008 , in Munich at the 44th Security Conference where the Armenian Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Oskanian also attended? In neither of these invitations was there any precondition, unlike it is claimed by the Armenians. *Why did the Armenian historian Sarafyan, who accepted the invitation of the then chief of Turkish History Foundation, Halacoglu, for cooperation to investigate Harput events, abandon the project, after talking the Armenian diaspora?
| Posted by akasya
15 of 130
3. If a genocide had really occured, why did Brian Ardouny of the Armenian Assembly of America announce 'We don't need to prove the genocide historically, because it has already been accepted politically'? Why did the chief of the Armenian Archives in Armenia tell that they were not interested in the achives, but all they are interested is the world's public opinion. In your life, have you ever seen a criminal who persistently calls the victim to bring his evidences? And, have you ever seen a victim who passionately accuses somebody of committing crime and giving him great harm but strictly avoids of bringing his proofs before the referees or going to court, and tells that he need not prove that person's guilt, because the community has already accepted him as guilty? In this situation would you not ask the question of in which era you are living. 5000 BC or 7000 BC?
| Posted by Anoosh
16 of 130
American (Turkish) Guy- You may not want to call what your Turkish forebearers did to its Armenian subject population a "Genocide" and that is certainly your right. However, you should not defame Mr. Levy by calling his comments "misleading" and "deceitful" when the Turkish murder of over 1.5 million Armenians was cited by Rafael Lemkin himself as one of the factors he considered when he coined the word genocide. Moreover, the unbiased (not paid off by the Turkish Government) International Conference of Genocide Scholars has unequivocally determined that the Turkish actions toward the Armenians in 1915 constituted Genocide. So, American (Turkish) Guy- you may argue that the Armenians "had it coming." You can shout that they were treasonous and deserved to die. But, you are WRONG. When the Young Turks decreed that they would forcibly evict over a million and a half Armenian men, women and children from the land that had been their home for centuries, forced them at gunpoint to march into the Der Zor desert without food or water, shot, raped and stabbed them on the way, and left them to die they committed TEXTBOOK genocide. Now you try to claim that this is an issue for the "courts" or for a "Joint Commission." I am an attorney and I will share something with you. This is not an issue for the courts or any type of trumped up joint commission. History is history. Facts are facts. Photos and documents and non-Turkish and non-Armenian eye-witness accounts lay out all anyone needs to know. Do yourself a favor...stop fighting history and admit the truth. Then move on. Your idiotic denialist actions have brought much more attention to this issue than a simple acknowledgment would have done.
| Posted by jda
17 of 130
More race hatred from Mr. Kirlikovali, the "Western Regional Director Federation Of Turkish-American Assoc., New York www.turkla.com" [post 9, above]: "Let the readers judge who to trust: the tricky Armenian or the honest Turk." A theme of both Nazi propaganda and the Turkish kind exemplified by the highly placed Mr. Kirlikovali, is the portrayal of the Armenian victim of 1915 as a trickster, a liar, a deceiver. This in part dehumanizes the victim of Genocide, and seeks to fortify the oppressor image as an honest person who would never brutalize anyone. The trickster's complaints of oppression, massacre, exile and ultimately Genocide are to be disbelieved, and his grandson's assertion of Genocide is to be thrown out for that reason. Mr. Kirlikovali, in your fevered efforts to explain away Genocide and dehumanize Armenians, you prove one of Levy's points. I recomemnd readers google Kirlikovali's name to get a fuller picture of the race hatred at the top of the Turkish-American establishment, which hobnobs with lobbyists and former Members of Congress Livingstone and Gephardt, and members like Dan Burton, Robert Wexler, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (whom I believe Mr. Kirlikovali supports with campaign contributions).
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
18 of 130
To Armen Manukyan (1 of 2): you say " This is already the third forum you have disrupted." So when a pro-Armenian view is represented, it is a forum; when a Turkish-American responds, it is disruption, is that right? If this is not bias, bigotry, and racism, I don't know what is. I got just the quote for you that will please you: "All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation" Source: Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun. What genocide are you talking about?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
19 of 130
To Armen Manukyan (2 of 2) : You say "Already enough scholars have put this issue to rest and the consensus is, a genocide indeed happened". History is not a matter of "consensus, political resolutions, biased op-eds, or hysterical demonstrations." History is a matter of research, peer review and reasoned debate, which people like you are preventing by resorting to intimidation, threats, lies, libel, and even violence. Dr. Gwynne Dyer, a London-based independent journalist, put it best in 1976, when he wrote: ". The deafening drumbeat of the propaganda, and the sheer lack of sophistication in argument which comes from preaching decade after decade to a convinced and emotionally committed audience, are the major handicaps of Armenian historiography of the diaspora today."
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
20 of 130
To Tigran (1 of 2) : You say " first of all, there has been no evidence of a large scale collective rebellion" Facts, however, belie your claims. "The Moslems who did not succeed in escaping [Bitlis] were put to death..." Grace H. Knapp, The Tragedy of Bitlis, Fleming H. Revell Co., New York (1919) , page 146. Here is one of hundreds of Armenian rebellions that no one talks about and others deny. "Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 And here is wide scale treason that Armenians deny. Truth is painful, isn't it?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
21 of 130
To Tigran (1 of 2) : You say " people don't want to die like sheep, that why they fight back. " Historical facts refute your distortions: . "Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van" Source: The Gochnag, an Armenian newspaper published in the United States, May 24,1915 ... in a proud report documenting the slaughter of the Turkish citizenry of Van. What self-defense are you talking about?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
22 of 130
To Burcu (1 of 2): First of all, I know you are that same Armenian who like to deceive people by introducing multiple messages under many fake names ( jda, ararat53, pierre, manukyan, etc. Etc.) I know you cyber-stalk me to lie about my record, libel me, intimidate or even threaten me. But I will turn this ignominy into something positive by responding to your misrepresentations as if they were questions asked by honest truth-seekers: Berktay you quoted, like Taner Akcam his buddy, are paid Armenian agents who share thesame dark secret: both were on the "wanted" posters of Turkish police in 1970s (to see the original poster, please click on this link: www.tallarmeniantale.com )
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
23 of 130
To Burcu (actually an Armenian posing as a Turk to mislead the TNR readers- 2 of 2) You say " Honoring what is good in our culture does not require hating Anyone. " If you are writing as an American, you are right. But if you are writing as an Armenian, you are wrong. Most Armenians in diaspora have never met a Turk and yet they already hate them intensely, enough to kill them. Examples: Yanikian killed two Turkish diplomats in Santa Barbara in 1973; Sasssonian killed one Turkish diplomat in Los Angeles in 1982; Topalian was caught by FBI planning bombings and storing explosives next to a daycare center, a school, and a gas station ion Ohio, convicted, and served a prison term. All these terrorists are cherished and revered by the Armenians as heroes and collections are taken in Armenian churches for legal defense funds. . Need I say more about who is full of hatred and vengeance?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
24 of 130
To Zareh (again that cheating Armenian writing under yet another alias) "Within a month almost 27000 signatures have been collected." First, it is two montsh and second the no-apology signatures are reaching one million (that's a ratio of 37 to 1). We do have anti-Tyrkish government and aneti-Turkish state people who are free to say what they want in Turkey which refutes Armenian arguments that dissent about Turkish official views are not allowed in Turkey. If two good things came out of this apology campaign, they are a) the fact that it is established now that dissent is allowed in Turkey, refutign the Armenian lobby claims to otherwise; b) the amazing speed and determination with which one million Turks of all backgrounds (American, European, Asian, African, Australian) came together around a forceful message as if to say "Enoguh is enough" to Armenian liars (like this guy who writes under many fake names: jda, ararat, pierre, hasan, burcu, zareh, manukyan... )
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
25 of 130
To Anoosh (if that's your real name- yep, you guessed it. It is the same Armenian coward and a pathological liar who likes deceiving people with many fake names and messages: jda, ararat, pierre, hasan, burcu, zareh, manukyan ) This one is especially for you: ".For fourteen days, I followed the Euphrates; it is completely out of the question that I during this time would not have seen at least some of the Armenian corpses, that according to Mrs. Stjernstedt's statements, should have drifted along the river en masse at that time. A travel companion of mine, Dr. Schacht, was also travelling along the river. He also had nothing to tell when we later met in Baghdad. .In summary, I think that Mrs. Stjernstedt, somewhat uncritically, has accepted the hair-raising stories from more or less biased sources, which formed the basis for her lecture." H.J. Pravitz, A Swedish officer, Nya Dagligt Allehanda, 23 April, 1917 issue, (A Swedish Newspaper published from 1859 to 1944) This journalist eyewitness exposes the degree of Armenian lies and now you know how 54,000 Armenian dead (8 thousand documented for massacres and 48,000 due to hunger, epidemics) became 200,000 in the 29 March 1919 Paris Peace Conference reports and 1.5 million nowadays. Since the dead cannot multiply, we have to assume the number was artificially jacked up by cowardly liars like thisperson who calls himself Anoosh-Zareh-Burcu-Hasan-Manukyan-jda-etc.etc. Who do you trust? This Armenian liar or me, an honest Turk whois proud to write under his own birth-given name?
| Posted by Phantom
26 of 130
93+ years of smothering the truth about the Armenian Genocide; 93+ years of trying to build up the self-esteem of the Turkish people with nationalistic and racist policies and idealogy; 93+ years of teaching the Turkish people that Armenians are backstabbing parasites that deserved what they got. Is it any wonder that people like Kirlikovali exist and even form the mainstream of Turkish policy? From 2,000,000 people who lived on the land for almost 3 millenia, 1,800,000 disappeared from that land in just 3 years, and the mainstream Turkish thesis still in the year 2008 is that it was a civil war caused by the treacherous, backstabbing, parasitic . . . victims. Genocide deniers want rational people to believe that thesis.
| Posted by Erkin Baker
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Throughout history, millions of civilians have perished in wars alongside the military. Not all of these deaths can be classified as genocide. For it to be genocide, the deaths must have resulted as a "deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group." Yes, the Jews did suffer genocide at the hands of the Germans. This was proven by the Nuremberg Trials. On the other hand, there has been no international court of justice that has proven that a genocide of the Armenians took place at the hands of the Turks. On the contrary, after WW I, a war-crimes tribunal set up on the island of Malta, where about 144 prominent Turks were brought to to be tried for the said-crimes, could not find evidence to convict the Turks of this crime; and they were all sent back home. Mr. Levy perhaps has not been made aware that the Armenians were not innocent bystanders like the Jews were in Germany. There were 100,000 well-armed Armenian militia that fought against the Ottoman army; The Armenians, including civilians, pillaged and burned down towns and villages. They wanted land from the Turks on which the Turks, and not they, were the majority. "The United Nations has not approved or endorsed a report labeling the Armenian experience as genocide." This statement was made by Farhan Haq, U.N. spokesman, on October 5, 2000; and to date, it stands. No declaration by academicians, the media, or parliaments of various countries, will establish genocide without an International Court of Justice verdict. The Armenians are free to bring their case to the Hague. Needless o say, they would first have to open their archives in Yerevan, Lebanon, and Boston -- which they refuse to do. Mrs. Erkin Baker
| Posted by Zareh
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It is sad to see Turkish posters on multitude websites posting the same coordinated, word-for-word libelous claims and outrageous accusations that only serves to humiliate themselves. Worse, these posts essentially produce the opposite results for the Turks, besides the bankruptcy of their ideas a deeply seeded racist views emerge where it becomes clear that TRUTH is not what they are after. Mr. Kivrikovali has no shame in writing words that read right out of Nazi propaganda handbook: "Tricky Armenian vs Honest Turk", This is simply mind boggling. He has the gall to call Mr Levy "bias" and "misleading".
| Posted by Anoosh
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Mr. Kirlikovali- Your irrational ranting and raving on this website and others like it shows the true depth of Turkish hatred. Websites likes yours and the others you cite simply spit hatred. Back in the day when Turkey allowed its citizens to access You Tube, Turks showed their venon under clips of aged Armenian Genocide survivors with ignorant, despicable and vile comments. Comments like, "I wish we had finished the job." or "My grandfather raped your grandmother...ha ha." Why don't you just pretend for one moment that you are not Turkish and have not based your entire existence on hate. Spend one month researching this issue using impartial sources. Pick up a copy of American Ambassador Morgenthau's eye-witness account of what was happening in Anatolia in 1915. Read about Ambassador Morgenthau's discussions with the Turkish masterminds of the Genocide and his pleas that they cease their evil plan. Research the archives of any of the major world newspapers at the time. And go back to Anatolia and wander through the Armenian villages, see Armenian homes and churches that have stood on that land for centuries and ask yourself where all of those Armenians went. You may not like what you find, but you will find the truth. By the way, why do you think that there is only one Armenian out here in cyberland who writes post after post under different aliases? That is a very narrow-minded and paranoid assumption. I write under the name Anoosh only. Despite your illogical suppositions, there are many of us who find your comments so deeply disturbing that we take time out of our lives to respond to you.
| Posted by peter goldwasser
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I stumbled over this article. As a strnger to the Armenian issue, but the great grandson of Holocaust survivors, I am disgusted by the hate I read here by the Turkish groups representative Mr. Kirlikovali. I am deeply concerned that Turkish American groups have him in high office. As a member of several Jewish American groups, I will contact my organizations to ensure we do not ally with people who preach hate.
| Posted by jda
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As Genocide recognition here looms, the hatred boils over against Armenians. Turkey: you need a new PR firm, and some huamne spokesmen.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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Bernard-Henri Levy's lack of respect for genuine scholarship , it seems, is only matched with his selective morality. By taking Armenian claims at face value, he shows how easy a prey he is for the incessant Armenian propaganda. I am, of course, referring to his remembering Dink, but somehow, forgetting more than 40 Turkish diplomats, who were all killed by hate-filled Armenian assassins since 1973. I was one of the pall-bearers in 1982 of the Turkish consul general Kemal Arikan's coffin. I didn't see then any outpouring of condemnation by the Armenians in Los Angeles, the way Dink murder was protested in 2006 by Turks in Istanbul. Diaspora Armenians treated the young Armenian killer like a hero aand even took up collections for his legal defense. I don't remember Levy writing any eulogies for the fallen Turkish victims of Armenian terrorism. Talk about double standards and hypocrisy.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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In this very same paper, exactly 80 years ago, almost to the date, a world renown American scholar, Professor John Dewey of Columbia University, New York, and who is referred to as one of America's quintessential thinkers and philosophers, wrote the following lines after visiting Turkey and studying the human tragedy there : ".Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 'seventies, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey, or that in the Great War, they traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame because the story of provocations and reprisals is a futile as it is endless; but it indicates what happened in the past to both Armenian and Turkish populations ." Dewey was the rare American who scratched beneath the omnipresent anti-Turkish propaganda that was especially evident in the United States. Levy, on the other hand, will be remembered with his triviality and banality in his unfortunate op-ed above. What a striking contrast in the same space in just 80 years!
| Posted by Joe Urner
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Thank you Mr. Ergun Kirlikovali for proving Bernard-Henri Levy point. If ignorance was a blessing Sir, you would be a saint.
| Posted by jda
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To any Turkish American: Why is this racist Kirlikovali a spokesman here and on Turkish Forum? Certainly those who do not subscribe to the Genocide thesis can say what they want without calling Armenians of 1915 and today insulting and vile names. I urge you to google him and see even worse things he has said elsewhere.
| Posted by jda part 2
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A Turkish prosecutor has opened an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against the authors of an online apology for the First World War killings of Armenians, state-run news agency Anatolian reported on Friday. The state prosecutor in Ankara is probing whether the group of intellectuals who offered the apology violated Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, which criminalizes "insulting the Turkish people," Anatolian reported. A big step backwards
| Posted by jda
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why does the canny and accomplished Turkish American establishment hold out this racist Kirlikovali as its voice?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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TURKS CONDEMNED THE DINK KILLER; BUT ARMENIANS EMBRACED THE ARIKAN KILLER; THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TURKS AND ARMENIANS The members of Turkish-American community condemned the murder of Hrant Dink in the strongest possible language; expressed deep sorrow and conveyed heartfelt condolences to the victim's family, friends, and, the entire Turkish nation. Turks also condemned the killing with their outpouring of heartfelt condolences; tens of thousands of Turks marched in Istanbul streets to protest. Public statements of sorrow and sympathy from top political leaders down to ordinary citizens covered the front pages of every newspaper. The killer's own father actually turned his son in to the police!.. What more can any honest and fair person ask from a nation whose police caught the assassin within 36 hours!.. Now compare this Turkish reaction to the killing of an Armenian in Istanbul with the Armenian reaction to the killing of a Turk in Los Angeles. How did the Armenians react when the Turkish diplomat, Kemal Arikan, about the same age as Hrant Dink at the time of death, also married, also had kids, was assassinated in the same dastardly way as Hrant Dink, on January 27, 1982, in Los Angeles? Was any protest march organized spontaneously like the ones in Turkey? Did Armenians march down the Wilshire Avenue , for instance, shouting "We are all Kemal Arikan today" and "We are all Turks today"? Were there thousands of Armenians condemning a dastardly hate crime committed in our midst by a brainwashed young Armenian teenager , Hampig Sassoonian (the convicted Armenian killer, was 19 years old? ) Was there a massive opposition by Armenians to hate crimes victimizing Turks? Answers are: No, no, no, and no. How about the other two Turkish diplomats gunned down in Santa Barbara in 1973 by a hate-filled Armenian older man? Did anyone verbal, written, and/or organized protest then? Any march downtown? Any posters bearing the Turkish victims likeness? Any catchy slogans condemning Armenian terrorism? Anything? Answers are, again: No, no, no, no, and no. When you compare the reaction to hate crimes by nations, you know Turks passed the test of empathy, compassion and tolerance with flying colors. And Armenians flunked the test of empathy, compassion, and tolerance miserably, but did pass the test of hate-cultivation, vengeance, and venom with flying colors. I am not judging the Diaspora Armenians; the history of the last 30+ years is.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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ARMENIANS TREATED THE ARMENIAN ASSASSIN LIKE A HERO! When a 17 year old Turkish kid killed an innocent Armenian writer, the killer's Turkish father immediately turned him over to the police and the Turkish nation from top to bottom condemned the killer. The Turkish assassin and his hate crime were shown zero tolerance by Turks. But when Hampig Sassoonian, the 19 year old Armenian kid who killed an innocent Turkish diplomat, did the killer's family turn him over to the LAPD? Of course not! In fact, far from it. The Armenian assassin was hidden from view in a series of safe Armenian homes until anonymous tips led to killer's capture by LAPD. What did the Armenian Diaspora do? They sheltered the killer! As if that was not reprehensible enough, they then raised funds for the murderer's legal defense in Armenian churches. They held candle light vigils glorifying a brainwashed, bloodthirsty teenager assassin. They treated the 19-year-old Armenian assassin like a hero! When you compare these two diametrically opposite reactions against an identical hate crime 24 years and 10,000 miles apart, you cannot help but be impressed by the strong and swift Turkish protests condemning it and absolutely disgusted by the equally strong and determined Armenian embrace of it. This is a documented and irrefutable fact, etched in stone. Even the most biased and virulent Turk-hater should be able to see this big picture and hopefully wake up.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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I PROTESTED THE DINK KILLING ALTHOUGH I STRONGLY DISAGREED WITH DINK'S VIEWS... I did not know Dink personally and I strongly disagreed with him on his characterization of Turkish-Armenian conflict during WWI. Here were our major differences: 1- Dink called it genocide, I know it was not; it was a civil war started by Armenian nationalists. 2- Dink was compassionate about the Armenian suffering and losses; I am compassionate about both Turkish and Armenian, as well as others' suffering and losses during the same time period and in the same geography. I do not approve of selective morality, double standards, or hypocrisy. 3- Dink ignored or dismissed Armenian treason, revolts, and terrorism; I write about them all the time. 4- Dink hardly ever mentioned the Ottoman-Armenians who donned the uniforms of the invading Russian and French armies to kill their fellow Ottoman citizens, i.e. their Muslim neighbors; I stress that forgotten (or ignored) fact in my writings. 5- Dink wanted dialogue and peace; so do I along with 70 million Turks in Turkey and 5 million Turks around the globe. Dink thought dialogue and peace could come from, well, accepting Dink's views. Whereas I think dialogue and peace can come from "learning about the other side of the story, namely the Turkish side and making room for Turkish suffering and losses (like my grandparents.)" If you want others to feel empathy for you, then you should not withhold it from others. 6- Dink did not dwell upon more than a million Azeri non-combatants, made refugees at gunpoint on their own soil in 1992 by the Armenians; I wrote about this shameful ethnic cleansing campaign waged in this day and age by Armenia frequently (it still continues as you read these lines.) 7- Dink did not condemn Armenian aggression in Karabagh and the wholesale massacre of the entire population of Khodjaly on February 19, 1992; I did, many times. 8- Dink wanted the Turkish-Armenian border opened, as he thought trade would improve relations and increase prosperity in the region. I want Armenia to end military occupation of Azerbaijan first, allow the 1+ million Azeri refugees to return to their homes in Karabagh and western regions of Azerbaijan, and recognize Turkey's current borders, delegate the civil war/genocide debate to qualified historians with open access to all archives, then and only then, can the Turkish-Armenian border be opened. 9- While Dink, and many biased and ill-informed and hate-filled Diaspora Armenians and their self-serving allies, wanted Turkey to face her history; I wanted Armenians, and their many western allies, to face their own history along with Turks facing Turkish history (England, France, Russia, the U.S., and others, for example.) 10- Dink implied facing history would build a better future; I am saying facing Dink's version of history is a bad idea due to falsified and biased nature of Dink's version of history. As you can see, while Dink and I agreed on the need for calm dialogue and peace between the Turks and the Armenians, we disagreed on how to get there - and pretty much on everything else. Although these differences in opinion are stark, they are no reason for anyone to be hurt or shot. We should be able to settle our differences by words, not bullets. I still see some Armenians and their non-Armenian friends today, for example, who display zero tolerance for the other side of the story and act like crazed lynch mobs with their words and/or deeds. Last word: Let the unadulterated truth , not Armenian propaganda, resolve this controversial debate.
| Posted by aylinata
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Let us reevaluate Armenia's persistence on the word 'genocide' from a different perspective: Armenia's attitude towards Turkey's land integrity: Article 13 (second paragraph) of Armenian constitution declares the 'Agri Mountain' in the Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, as the state symbol of Armenia . Article 11 of the Armenian Declaration of Independence of August 23, 1990; refers to Eastern Anatolia of Turkey as Western Armenia and as such beholds that this area is part of Armenia. Since the Armenian constitution recognizes as a basis "the fundamental principles of the Armenian statehood and national aspirations engraved in the Declaration of Independence of Armenia", it likewise accepts the characterization of Eastern Anatolia as Western Armenia and this, albeit indirectly, translates into the advancement of territorial claims. The Armenian politicians and school books call Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, 'invaded mother land of Armenia' and in Armenia the school children are being grown up being conditioned to be patriots to rescue their invaded land. Even the marches they sing are about this condition. The Armenians who write in such blogs that the Eastern Anatolia cities do not belong to Turkey, as if the present Eastern boundaries of Turkey was not determined by treaties of Gumru (1920), Moscow (1921) and the whole boundaries by Lausanne (1923) Treaties; after the Turkish Freedom War. Additionally Armenia refused Turkey's recurrent offers to commit an agreement declaring that each country recognizes the other country's land integrity, in 1992 and later. Why do the Armenians force Turkey to accept a genocide? The answer is hidden in a speech of the chief of Dashnak Party Hrant Markaryan who told that their efforts for the recognition of Armenian (so-called) genocide was not an isolated purpose but it was a part of the struggle for rescue of the West Armenia (Armenian Forum Vol2 No 4; Armenian Weekly On-line, 18 June, 4 July 2003). The Armenian then prime minister Andranik Markaryan told that the internationally recognition of (so called) Armenian genocide and demanding land from Ankara as 'compensation' was possible only after Armenia had strengthened and the Armenians should not have told that they demanded land from Ankara loudly and everywhere (Arminfo 26 May 2004). On one occasion President Kocharian stated that since today's Armenia does not have the clout to advance such demands, doing so should be left to future generations at a time when conditions would hopefully be better suited to this end'. A poll taken in Armenia revealed that almost all youngsters in the Republic of Armenia wished to follow up with land claims from Turkey and 90% of them said Turkey must unequivocally accept genocide allegations (Milliyet - April 11, 2006). The world should not forget that Germany's claim on Zudetland and Gdansk just because they were its historical lands caused burst of World War II! History is full of wars which broke up because of claims of states on their historical lands. Yet, there are obvious evidences showing that the Armenians did not constitute the majority of the population in neither of the Ottoman provinces which the Armenians call Western Armenia and the Muslim population was 3 to 8 times more than that of the Armenian's ( (Ottoman Population Statistics 1890 and 1914). If an item like the aforementioned Armenian item were present in the lawbook of Mexico claiming that Texas, Arizonna, New Mexico and California which were historical lands of Mexico, belonged to Mexico but invaded, would the American tolerate it? Therefore the world should not overlook Armenia's aggressivity, which is hidden behind their role of victim and should think about the price of their support to the Armenians very well. So, the most important question which should be asked now is whether the world politicians, journalists and supporters of human rights will go on falling within the scope of Armenian propagandists and go on being major advocates of Armenian aggressivity, while pursuing humanist missions or not!
| Posted by jda
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For all his protestations about Hrant Dink's killing, Mr. Kirlikovali wrote on the day of the killing that it was probably the work not of Fascist nationalists but of "anti-Turks", which is code for Armenians: "Viewed in this light, one cannot help wondering if this assassination is organized by some anti-Turks." Turkish Digest 1/19/07. At no time after the arrest of the killer Samast or the other Fascist members of his cell did Kirlikovali retract his words. Kirlikovali's unhappiness with Dink's death are akin to a racist complaining aboput the assassination of Martin Luther King - it provided bad publicity and is bad for the cause. Kirlikovali should recognize that the daily torrent of racist attacks he makes and has made for years on Armenians (e.g. backstabbers, treacherous, liars, murderers, traitors)now and then reflected the very words of and culture in which the killers thrive and find ratification for their murders. (See the picture of the police officers posing with Samast under the Turkish flag, cited in the Levy piece.)
| Posted by jda
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What Mr. Kirlikovali fails to report is that Dink was reportedly threatened with death by state officials before he was killed, as reported in RADIKAL newspaper just after his death. As Dink reprted, he was summoned to an official office and told by a woman at the meeting that it would be easy for a youth to shoot him to death. That's just what happened. Young assassins are favored because they get lighter sentences. Samast, the celebrated killer, was 17.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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BERNARD-HENRI LEVY'S LACK OF RESPECT FOR GENUINE SCHOLARSHIP , it seems, is only matched with his selective morality. By taking Armenian claims at face value, he shows how easy a prey he is for the incessant Armenian propaganda. I am, of course, referring to his remembering Dink, but somehow, forgetting more than 40 Turkish diplomats, who were all killed by hate-filled Armenian assassins since 1973. I was one of the pall-bearers in 1982 of the Turkish consul general Kemal Arikan's coffin. I didn't see then any outpouring of condemnation by the Armenians in Los Angeles, the way Dink murder was protested in 2006 by Turks in Istanbul. Diaspora Armenians treated the young Armenian killer like a hero aand even took up collections for his legal defense. I don't remember Levy writing any eulogies for the fallen Turkish victims of Armenian terrorism. Ever. Talk about double standards and hypocrisy
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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DEWEY'S SCHOLARSHIP VERSUS LEVY'S PROPAGANDA:
In this very same paper, exactly 80 years ago, almost to the date, a world renown American scholar, Professor John Dewey of Columbia University, New York, and who is referred to as one of America's quintessential thinkers and philosophers, wrote the following lines after visiting Turkey and studying the human tragedy there : ".Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 'seventies, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey, or that in the Great War, they traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame because the story of provocations and reprisals is a futile as it is endless; but it indicates what happened in the past to both Armenian and Turkish populations ." Dewey was the rare American who scratched beneath the omnipresent anti-Turkish propaganda that was especially evident in the United States. Levy, on the other hand, will be remembered with his triviality and banality in his unfortunate op-ed above. What a striking contrast in the same space in just 80 years!
| Posted by jda
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If you doubt the ingrained hatred of Christians and Jews of the Turkish state, consider that non-Muslims cannot hold high positions within the Turkish state: Non-Muslims can not become professional soldiers (no officers or NCO's). They are also not allowed to work in foreign affairs, internal affairs (police, governor, etc.), justice (prosecutor, judge) or even municipal garbage collector. The only non-Muslim state employees are either musicians in the philharmonic orchestras or professors at the universities.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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WHY IS TNR CONTINUOUSLY GIVING VOICE ONLY TO ONE SIDE OF THE STORY? Why cannot TNR solicit and op-ed presenting the other side of the story to unsuspecting readers? Why is TNR acting like a "journalist with a cause" and thus damaging its credibility? TNR would not think of covering other controversial issues like abortion, gun control, immigration, war in Iraq, taxes, and million others from only one side, would TNR? Why then lower journalistic standards of objectivity, truth, and honesty when it comes to the hundred year old Turkish-Armenian conflict? I would be more than happy to write one representing the other side of the story, namely the heretofore ignored Turkish side, or suggest a list names who can do the same. Isn't it about time fairness, objectivity, and truth took over Armenian propaganda in this controversy?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"Since all the able Moslem men were in the army, it was easy for the Armenians to begin a horrible slaughter of the defenseless Moslem inhabitants in the area. They ... simply cleaned out the Moslem inhabitants in those areas. They performed gruesome deeds, of which I, as an eye witness honestly say that they were much worse than what Turks have been accused of as an Armenian atrocity." General Bronsart von Schellendorf , "A Witness for Talat Pasha," Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, July 24, 1921 Why is everyone so silent about Armenian hate crimes and Muslim, mostly Turkish, suffering? Isn't this a different manifestation religious and ethnic discrimination as well as covert racism?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks." Mikael Kaprilian, Armenian revolutionary leader, in Yerevan, 1919. Let non-partisan historians show you the Armenian war crimes that biased scholars and bigoted media will not. Include the other side of the story in your coverage of hundred-year-old Turkish-Armenian conflict.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"There is little news from the interior save that the Russians have entered Van. The contingent is mostly composed of Armenian volunteers who fight with desperate courage, but whose excesses have shocked even the Russian commanders." Lewis Einstein, "Inside Constantinople - A [Diplomat's] Diary During the Dardanelles Expedition, April-September, 1915,". 1917, p. 68; John Murray, London. Horrendous Armenian war crimes belie Armenian the genocide claims.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"MANY MASSACRES WERE COMMITTED BY THE ARMENIANS until our army arrived in Erzurum... (after General Odesilitze left) 2,127 Muslim bodies were buried in Erzurum's center. These are entirely (Muslim) men. There are ax, bayonet and bullet wounds on the dead bodies. Lungs of the bodies were removed and sharp stakes were struck in the eyes. There are other bodies around the city." Official telegram of the Third Royal Army Command, addressed to the Supreme Command, March 19, 1918; ATASE Archive of General Staff, Archive No: 4-36-71. D. 231. G.2. K. 2820. Dos.A-69, Fih.3. Why is no one talking about Armenian war crimes? The genocide crowds do not seem to know how to process these documented facts revealing gruesome murders committed by Armenian gangs of revolutionaries. Such facts simply trip up the memory in reciting popular Armenian propaganda.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"...We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars (Turks), and then proceeded in the work of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stones and dust, and when the villages became untenable and the inhabitants fled from them into the fields, bullets and bayonets completed the work." Ohanus Appressian, describing incidents in 1919; Memoirs of an Armenian officer, Men are Like That, 1926. Still doubt Armenian war crimes?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"The Moslems who did not succeed in escaping [the city] were put to death..." Grace H. Knapp, The Tragedy of Bitlis, Fleming H. Revell Co., New York (1919) , page 146. Here is one civil war that no one talks about. One fears such facts might interfere with the "consensus" on the bogus genocide.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Muslim) villages that are utterly defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village." Admiral Mark Bristol, Bristol Papers, General Correspondence: Container #32: Bristol to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920. Facts belie Armenian claims. How come Levy does not mention this fact or many others like it clearly pointing to Armenian complicity in war crimes? Because they categorically reject and refute the genocide claims?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 How can any decent and fair person dare still talk about that bogus genocide after this and countless other examples of raids, rebellions, terrorist acts, treason, and territorial demands causing 524,000 Muslim fatalities, mostly Turks? Since when defending one's home is considered a genocide?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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".Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van." Source: The Gochnag, an Armenian newspaper published in the United States, May 24,1915; in a proud report documenting the slaughter of the Turkish citizenry of Van. What genocide is Levy talking about? What a shameless deception in 21st century!
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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" All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation" Source: Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun. Let unmolested archives document the unspeakable hate crimes committed by the Armenian gangs and revolutionaries causing the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of the Armenian community that supported them. Censoring Turkish views do not help peace.
| Posted by Zareh
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The Turkish method of rewriting history is based on tailoring events to suit a historical end. To do that one has to twist the events, incidents and voila...your theories become "history". Mr. Kivrikovali's vengeful hatred towards the Armenians are so glaring that he comes across as nothing short of a racist individual with serious issues. He is confused in thinking that dishing out "proof" of Armenian "guilt" will in anyway diminish the burden of the genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman Turkish government to destroy the entire Armenian race from its original motherland, to defend the rest of the Armenian population Armenians responded in a savage war of survival. Cutting and pasting Turkish government fabricated lies is what he does well. Continue Mr. Kirlikovali, you show the true face of an ultranationalist Turk, a proud Grey Wolf! The type that would pose for posterity with the likes of Samast !
| Posted by John White
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Dear Ergun. The systematic extermination of the Armenians is etymologicaly connected to the word genocide. Raphael Lemkin, the man who coined the word 'genocide' based it in large part on what happened to the Armenians. So, arguing that what happened to the Armenians was not genocide is like saying the fruit orange is not orange in colour. If you believe that what happened to the Armenians was not genocide, then you should have convinced Raphael Lemkin to not have based the word on the Armenian holocaust.
| Posted by Janine
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I suppose Mr. Kirklikovali has never heard of the International Association of Genocide Scholars. Or, perhaps if he's heard of them, he doesn't care for the fact that they have indisputably and emphatically classified the massacres of Armenians in Turkey in 1915 as genocide. On the other hand, I hope anyone reading this article and Kirlikovali's comments has a chance to examine what racist genocidal hatred is really like. If it wasn't horrific, it would almost be comical how this person nor apparently his allies can see what thuggish behavior is like in print.
| Posted by jda
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The Turkish-American establishment today has adopted a strategy of swarming any blog with block quotes from supposed books in which Armenian authors agree that Armenians committed atrocities against Turks. Mr Kirlikovali has placed ten such supposed quotes directly above. and he has done this elsewhere countless times. These quotes come from an aggregation website which purports to be a "neutral" Genocide resource, but which highlights only the most vicious Anti-Armenian propaganda. In many instances these supposed books cannot be located and are likely forgeries of a Turkish gentleman who came up with them in the 90's. More to the point,they are not relevant to whether Ottoman state actors committed Genocide of unarmed men, women and children under guard. The Turkish establishment seeks to create a belief that Armenians somehow died in a civil war, not at the hands of the State. Even the Denialists' current favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, dismisses the 'civil war" thesis out of hand, calling it a "travesty of history", and he endorses the conclusion of another Turkish historian, who said that no historian with a conscience could advance the idea that Armenains did not suffer "colossal" crimes at the hands of the Ottomans. Page 122 of the Lewy book, publioshed in 2005; A Diputed Genocide. For his part, Kirlikovalihas written elsewhere that only 8,000 Armenians died during the Death Marches, and died in what he calls "feuds".
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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Allegations of Armenian genocide are racist and dishonest history. They are racist because they imply only Armenian (or Christian) dead count, the Turkish (or Muslim) dead do not.; thus dehumanizing an entire group of people with political motives. And the allegations of Armenian genocide are dishonest because they dismiss "The Six T's Of The Turkish-Armenian Conflict": TUMULT (many Armenian rebellions between 1890 and 1915 and beyond;) TERRORISM (by Armenians between 1882 and 1915 and beyond;) TREASON (Armenians first covertly then overtly joining the invading enemy armies;) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (by Armenian minority attempting to rule a Muslim, mostly Turkish majority;) TURKISH SUFFERING (caused by Armenians -documented to be 524,000 by the Turkish Historical Institute;) and TERESET (temporary resettlement) triggered by the first five T's above.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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Those familiar with the Mosin-Gaflan mentality of the Armenians and their "Greater Armenia" dreams will note Levy's writings as just another link in the chain of deception and defamation of Turkey by the supporters of the official Armenian history. Carefully formulating the question as "Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide?" shows pure anti-Turkish bias. The question, in all fairness and objectivity, should be rephrased: "What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?" Turks believe it was a civil war within a world war provoked and waged by the Armenians with active support from Russia, England, and France, and passive support from the U.S. diplomats, missionaries, media, and others, all of whom coveted the Ottoman lands, wealth, peoples, and/or political influence to varying degrees; most Armenians claim it was genocide but lack a verdict by a competent tribunal -given after due process where the accused is given a fair chance to cross examine evidence and witnesses and properly defend themselves.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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Levy did a great disservice to unsuspecting readers by not telling them, even in passing, the fact that a dozen or more counter campaigns have spontaneously sprouted all over the world (one right here in America: www.ozurdilemiyorum.net) that collected nearly a million votes for "No apology" in reaction to a recent apology campaign that was started by those who are long known for their anti-Turkish government and state views and which campaign only collected some 26,000 votes (that's less than 3% of the total voters.) How fair or honest is leaving such a story out? This is also significant because this is the first time close to a million Turks of all stripes (Turkish, American, European, Asian, African, Australian) have come together so powerfully and swiftly as if to scream "Enough is enough!" to the Armenian falsifiers and their fellow Turk-haters.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 1 of 3) Armenian "allegations" of genocide ignore the facts that genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention and a genocide verdict can only be given by a "competent court" after "due process" where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined. Furthermore, for a genocide verdict to be rendered, the accusers must prove at a competent court and after due process the intent of the alleged perpetrator to commit genocide. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, misrepresentations, exaggerations, forgeries, and "other".
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 2 of 3)Such a "competent court" was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.) Genocide claim, therefore, is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Muslims in general and Turks in particular. The term genocide must be used with the qualifier "alleged", if one values ideals like truth, objectivity, and fairness.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 3 of 3) What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks and friends of Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. American values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, one of America's closest allies in the troubled Middle East, in order to appease some nagging Armenian activists runs counter to American interests. Those who claim genocide verdict today, based on the much discredited Armenian evidence, are actually engaging in "conviction and execution without due process". And that, according to dictionary, is the definition of "lynch mobs".
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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".As soon as the Armenian volunteer units commanded by Antranik approach Van, the Dashnak fighters in the area will take to the mountains and unfurl the flag of revolt. The plans for the rebellion will be implemented in April 1915. The Catholicos has informed us that 10,000 armed fighters are ready to join the action." Source: Dashnak decision, end of February 1915 Armenian National Congress held in Tiblis. [The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question; Esat Uras, Documentary Publications, Istanbul (1988); p.853] Please note how the Armenian "pope", i.e. the Catholicos, is up to his neck in planning murder and mayhem! This is religion? This is Levy's "poor, starving Armenians"? Since when defending your home against heinous Armenian war crimes is considered a genocide?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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ARMENIAN REBELLION IN VAN. continued ( 2 of 2) Those 10,000 Armenian "armed fighters" The Catholicos had informed did take up arms against the Muslim population of Van, just as heinously planned, did slaughter the Muslim population of Van; and did turn over Van city to the invading Russian armies. Source: The Armenian Rebellion at Van, Justin McCarthy, Esat Arslan, Cemaletting Taskiran, Omer Turan (The University of Utah Press, Salt lake City, USA, 2006) Those Armenian rebellions and treason, coupled with many hundreds like them happening all over eastern Anatolia between 1890 and 1915, brought about the last minute wartime home security measure of Tereset (temporary resettlement) of the Eastern Anatolia Armenians, sort of like a massive Ottoman-Guantanamo, but not genocide, not even close.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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".In all the countries, under all the regimes, the staff of the armies in the field evacuate towards the back, the populations which live in the zone of fights and can bother the movement of the troops, especially if these populations are hostile. Public opinion does not find anything to criticize to these measures, obviously painful, but necessary. During winter of 1939-1940, the radical - socialist French government evacuated and transported in the Southwest of France, notably in the Dordogne, the entire population of the Alsatian villages situated in the valley of the Rhine, to the east of the Maginot line. This German-speaking population, and even sometimes germanophil, bothered the French army. It stayed in the South, far from the evacuated homes and sometimes destroyed until 1945..And nobody, in France, cried out for inhumanity." Source: Georges de Maleville, lawyer and a specialist on the Armenian question, La Tragédie Arménienne de 1915, (The Armenian tragedy of 1915), Editions F. Sorlot-F. Lanore, Paris, 1988, p 61-63. Doesn't this point poignantly and forcefully to the hollowness of the Armenian claims?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (1 of 5): "Ethocide" is a new word, coined by this writer, at exactly 8:58 am, on Wednesday, May 7, 2003, after being frustrated by the incredibly biased coverage of the Turkish-Armenian issue in the American media. The term "ethocide" was first used in my letter to the Boston Globe on that date. Ethocide, my humble gift to the English language, is coined from the words "ethics" and "cide". The definition of ethics (singular in number), by Webster's II, New Riverside Dictionary, is: "The branch of philosophy dealing with the rules of right conduct". Ethocide is related and includes all the meanings and interpretations of the word "ethic" (without "s" in the end), which according to the same dictionary, has the following two meanings: 1. A principle of right or good conduct. 2. A system of moral values. "Cide" is Latin word for killing and is already widely used in modern English language in coined forms: suicide (kills self), genocide (kills a group of people with shared traits), biocide (kills biological growth), insecticide (kills insects); etc. Ethocide is, therefore, "extermination of ethics via persistent and systematic malicious mass deception for political, economical, social, religious, and/or other benefits."
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (2 of 5): Genocide is a term coined in 1943 by Raphäel Lemkin, a Polish-Jew, a lawyer, and a Holocaust survivor, based on the horrendous extermination of Jews in German Nazi concentration camps. When the UN adopted the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, no one at the UN seesm to have anticipated any FRAUDULENT AND MALICIOUS USE OF THE TERM GENOCIDE. Therefore, no terminology was included to identify what constituted misuse and no mechanism was created to monitor and prosecute such fraud. Shortly thereafter, when the Armenian lobbies hijacked this term, to justify the Ottoman-Armenian history of armed insurgency, terrorism, and treason, while unfairly defaming the Turkish culture and history, the need for a new term became obvious, at least to me. To add insult to injury, when the Armenians have resorted to international terrorism (1973 to present), killing many innocent Turkish diplomats because of their ethnicity, while still cruelly claiming genocide, the need for an antonym for genocide, became acute. It was not until 2003, when this writer's letters were censored by the editors of Glendale News Press, followed by Boston Globe's declaration that the qualifier "alleged" would no longer be used when referring to the Armenian claims of genocide, that this term came rushing to this writer: all this was a systematic extermination all right, but not of Ottoman-Armenians, rather, of the truth, and therefore, of the ethics, by the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters.) Hence the term ETHOCIDE was born.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (3 of 5): I am in the process of writing a book with the working title of "Ethocide, Not Genocide". The third chapter elucidates the origin, definition, analysis, proper use, and impact of the term ethocide, and compares it with its antonym, genocide. Later chapters deal with future trends that this "living term" might inspire. The AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters) disinformation continues to metastasize daily with ethocidal writings of people like Levy here and intense lobbying by the AFATH-invented genocide scholars and partisan historians. That kind of chicanery, or "ethocidal coverage" of events, now threatens to dethrone history, in the particular case of the Turkish-Armenian civil war during WWI. Ethocide, my humble gift to the English language, is the antidote for the poison of bogus genocides , current and future. This term will be increasingly more potent in time as more and more writers use it to combat dishonest and racist historiographies. The alleged Armenian genocide provides us with an excellent case in the study of ethocide around the world.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (4 of 5): Scholarly definition of Ethocide, however, shall be " Systematic extermination of ethics, via pre-meditated and malicious propaganda, disinformation, and/or other forms of mass deception, designed and/or used by any person, group, institution, country, or block of countries, to destroy partially or wholly, the honor, prestige, dignity, integrity, credibility, image, culture, heritage, and/or history of another person, group, institution, country, or block of countries, for political, social, economical, military, moral, perceptional, and other benefits." Ethocide shall be a "living term" taking on associate, newer, and/or wider meanings in time, after proper scholarly studies in the disciplines of law, history, psychology, sociology, literature, science, and medicine, and other as deemed necessary.y If the word ethocide is coupled with a qualifier, to identify specific case, then the entire phrase is to be capitalized, such as "the Armenian Ethocide".
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (5 of 5): The crime of ethocide can be committed by words or deeds. Letters, news reports, editorials, op-eds, books, journals, research papers, presentations, panel discussions, and others can be just as "ethocidal" in nature, as TV-shows, full feature films, documentaries, objects of art, exhibits, museums, public demonstrations, individual and/or group attitudes and/or behavior, consumer merchandise, and other public and/or private activities. The originator, this writer, envisages appearance of grass-root citizen groups and all-volunteer organizations, not in too distant future, which will identify, monitor, and expose major cases of ethocide, to bring public pressure on such "ethocidal criminals of conscience", in the hopes of preventing further such ethocidal attitudes and behavior, for the public good. Establishment of Ethocide Research Institute(s) (ERI), Ethocide Museum(s) (EM), Ethocide Films (EF) and other institutes dedicated to exposing ethocidal behavior in our midst, will eventually, exact a terrible price on the spin-doctors, self-described genocide scholars, and the AFATH lobbyists, just like Nazis are dealt a tremendous blow by the proper Holocaust education. Finally, the term ethocide is not to be confused with ethnocide. Latter already exists in the English language and means intentional and systematic destruction of an ethnic culture.
| Posted by jda
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One of the weaker tactics employed by Mr. Kirlikovali, and the Turkish-American establishment in which he plays a key part is to demand that they frame the issues of the Armenian Genocide. One of his and their demands is that the term "Armenian Genocide" not be used, and that it be substituted by "Armenian-Turkish conflict". This would stun Rafael Lemkin, who coined the term Genocide with the Armenian Genocide in mind. It is also meant to create the image of Armenain deaths attributable to a civil war, even though this thesis is repudiated by even the Turkish establishment's favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, see page 122 of his 2005 book. Finally, the Turkish establishment brands as "racist" merely referring to the Genocide, in another effort to tell Americans what they can and cannot say. The Turkish state's totalitarian instinct is extraterritorial. The Turkish state does a great, if pitiable effort, to cow its own people, but it has no power here. As if on cue, six Turkish prosecutors are reviewing whether the 200 organizers of the apology petition should be prosecuted for "insulting Turkishness". Apparently that same establishment thinks its writ runs here. Tell it to go to Hell - this is America.
| Posted by jda
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Mr.Kirlikovali presents almost a perfect image here and elsewhere of a true fanatic. He has posted 42 of 75 posts. But it is his gleeful racism and motives which portray more than the brute force of his desire to drown out all voices but his. The interesting riddle is why he hates, and hates Armenians so much. Mr.Kirlikovali's grandparents, according to him, hail from Greece, where he claims they were massacred not by Armenians, but by Greek villagers. I accept the claim at face value, and in my first exchanges with him suggested that the grandchildren of those who suffered exile and murder should work for peace and reconciliation. I think I was immdiately called a "lying Armenian" for my trouble. Mr. Kirlikovali's antecedents were likely native Greeks who converted to Islam in the 17th Century. Why he hates Armenians is a question I hope he answers some day for his own well being, not to mention the preservation of bandwith.
| Posted by jda
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Mr. Kirlikovali writes at post 72, above, that Raphael Lemkin coined the term "Genocide" to refer only to the Holocaust. This is what Kirlikovali said: "Genocide is a term coined in 1943 by Raphäel Lemkin, a Polish-Jew, a lawyer, and a Holocaust survivor, based on the horrendous extermination of Jews in German Nazi concentration camps. When the UN adopted the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, no one at the UN seesm to have anticipated any FRAUDULENT AND MALICIOUS USE OF THE TERM GENOCIDE. Lemkin actually said this during a 1949 CBS interview: "I became interested in genocide because it happened to the Armenians; and after[wards] the Armenians got a very rough deal at the Versailles Conference because their [Ottoman-Turkish] criminals were guilty of genocide and were not punished. You know that they [the Ottoman Turks] were organized in a terroristic organization which took justice into its own hands. The trial of Talaat Pasha in 1921 in Berlin is very instructive. A man (Soghomon Tehlirian), whose mother was killed in the genocide, killed Talaat Pasha. And he told the court that he did it because his mother came in his sleep ... many times. Here, .the murder of your mother, you would do something about it! So he committed a crime. So, you see, as a lawyer, I thought that a crime should not be punished by the victims, but should be punished by a court, by a national law." Cong. Emanuel Celler (D-NY), who was also interviewed in that same CBS program, added: "Pres. Wilson, a great democratic leader, tried to save the Armenian people from genocide during the First World War and shortly thereafter." Mr. Kirlikovali, why do you say demonstrably false things about the origin of the term Genocide and the conclusions of Dr. Lemkin?
| Posted by Zareh
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Now Mr. Kirlikovali has resorted into spamming this site with his meaningless ranting. Suffice it to say that he has proven to be a worthy member of what I call TRASH, (Turkish Racists Advocating Sickening Hatred). Congratulations Mr. K, it is too bad that the terrible burden of being the grandson of victims of the Balkan wars has turned you into a virulent anti-Armenian hate monger and an anti-Genocide propagandist. Peace! Zareh Sahakian, the son of survivors of the Armenian Genocide.
| Posted by jda annotating Ergun for fun
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ERGUN, ANNOTATED: COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (3 of 5): I am in the process of writing a book [jeepers, just staple your posts together]with the working title of "Ethocide, Not Genocide"[don't count on royalties quite yet]. The third chapter [I doubt I'll get through the 85 page preface] elucidates the origin, definition, analysis, proper use, and impact of the term ethocide, and compares it with its antonym, genocide [you're kind of an expert on the word ethocide since you coined it. Only problem is you're the only one who uses it - have you noticed?]. Later chapters deal with future trends that this "living term" might inspire [like what, burning Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians alive (again)]. The AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters)[Ergun rolls this "AFATH" one out for anyone, including non-Armenians who disagree with him, like Ottomanist Professor Quataert at SUNY Binghamton. I suggest he license it to Jenny Craig instead]. disinformation continues to metastasize daily with ethocidal writings of people like Levy here and intense lobbying by the AFATH-invented genocide scholars and partisan historians [let's see, the Turkish lobby snared Richard Gebhardt, Dick Armey, disgraced former House member Bob Livingston, several neoconic niotwits, and a few large PR firms]. That kind of chicanery [disagreement= chicanery], or "ethocidal coverage" of events, now threatens to dethrone history [last seen headed dejectedly to Elizabeth Arde], in the particular case of the Turkish-Armenian civil war during WWI [even Lewy says the civil war thesis is a "travesty" of history no historian with a conscience could support, but its quite okay with Ergun. Ethocide, my humble gift [very humble, Ergun, in fact non-existent] to the English language [sounds like Martian, actually], is the antidote for the poison of bogus genocides , current and future [huh?]. This term will be increasingly more potent in time as more and more writers use it to combat dishonest and racist historiographies [and that future writer would be you,and your Springer Spaniel?]. The alleged Armenian genocide provides us with an excellent case in the study of ethocide around the world [what you mean, "us", kimo sabe?].
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"For too many years Armenian mothers had lulled their children to sleep with songs whose theme was Turkish fierceness and savagery." Ohanus Appressian, lending testimony to how innocent Armenian children are subjected to the brutality of racism by their parents; their "Love NOT Thy Neighbor" churches are also known to join in this hatred bandwagon. Men Are Like That, 1926. The blame here has to be on the Armenian parents , not their children, although the latter commit the hate crimes against Turks today. That's why I say" TEACH THE CHILDREN WELL! Peace.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"... It's better that I be a dog or a cat, than a Turkish barbarian..." Edna Petrosyan, a SIX YEAR OLD Californian girl who recites hateful poems on the insistence of her mother. It is easy to see how this cycle of hate-perpetuation feeds the "Armenian Genocide" obsession for most Armenians. The Los Angeles Times, February 1, 1990 It is also interesting to note that most Armenian terrorists are young, some in their teens. If one mercilessly feeds a child with gory stories and tall tales cultivating intense hatred, a child cannot take it anymore and goes out to commit acts of terrorism.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"...In the early part of 1915, therefore, every Turkish city contained thousands of Armenians who had been trained as soldiers and who were supplied with rifles, pistols, and other weapons of defense. The operations at Van once more disclosed that these men could use their weapons to good advantage..." Source: Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story, Doubleday, Page & Co., Garden City, New York (1918), page 301. Here is the confession, straight from the horse's mouth. Armenians were trained as soldiers and supplied with rifles and used them to good advantage. What "poor, starving Armenian?" Genocide is a deception, a lie, a PR gimmick. That's all. Human suffering? Of course, but on all sides. Why ignore catastrophic Muslim, mostly Turkishm suffering at the hands of Armenians as revealed by Morgenthau himself here?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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". I have really found it impossible to sit down and dictate a letter quietly. So I have instructed (Hagop) Andonian to take my diary and copy it with some elaborations of his own. Of course this relieves me of all responsibility for any error." Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire (Lowry, 1990; Franklin Delano Roosevelt Presidential Library, New York, Letters; Box 7 May 11, 1915; Box 1 2 September 1, 1915; Box 8 July 13, 1915) Morgenthau's Armenian male secretaries Schmavonian and Andonian wrote all the embellished reports demonizing Turks and signed by Morgenthau, sometimes without even appreciating what he was signing. All of these outrageous lies found their ways to the columns of New York Tiems from where they went to the hearts and minds of unsuspecting Americans. This was the shameful Armenian loom weaving hate and vengeance and this is how Armenian propaganda got to where it is today.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"It is to be hoped that the future historian will not give too much heed to the drivel one finds in the books of diplomatist-authors." George A. Schreiner, American War/Political Correspondent, "The Craft Sinister: A Diplomatico-Political History of the Great War and its Causes, (G. Albert Gayer, New York, 1920)"; Schreiner criticized Ambassador Morgenthau in a letter, aware of the Ambassador's fabrications in "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story."
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"Every Armenian has another Armenian whom he considers his mortal enemy.An Armenian's worst enemies are not odars but Armenians." ("Odars" : foreigners) . Our perpetual enemy - the enemy that will eventually destroy us - is not the Turk but our own complacent superficiality.What kind of people are we?... Instead of reason, blind instinct. Instead of common sense, fanaticism. Our past is filled with countless instances of betrayal and treachery.. ." Source: Ara Baliozian quoting various Armenian writers.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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" In life, questions outnumber answers. Case in point: If they are bloodthirsty savages, why did they wait for 600 years to slaughter us?" Ara Baliozian, from a Yahoo group. The prior quotes are from the Ara Baliozian from earlier times, but Mr. Baliozian has been producing many gems since. As much as he has been "banned" from mainstream Armenian publications for not fitting in, he is a remarkable man. Here is a questions the members of the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers and Turk-Haters) grapple with all the time: who really destroyed the millennium of Turkish-Armenian cohabitation in Anatolia with rebellions, raids, treason, land demands, and outright terrorism? Was it the Turks or the Armenians? Think about it!
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"...When Turkey had not yet entered the war...Armenian volunteer groups began to be organized with great zeal and pomp in Trans Caucasia. In spite of the decision taken a few weeks before at the General Committee in Erzurum, the Dashnagtzoutune actively helped the organization of the aforementioned groups, and especially arming them, against Turkey. In the Fall of 1914, Armenian volunteer groups were formed and fought against the Turks..." Hovhannes Katchaznouni, First Prime Minister of the Independent Armenian Republic, The Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni, 1923. (The Armenian Revolutionary Federation Has Nothing to Do Any More, New York, Armenian Information Service, 1955, p. 5.)
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"Practically all of the (volunteers were) Turkish Armenians," The New York Times reported, in 1915. [One of the main aspects of Armenian] "national psychology... [is] to seek external causes for [Armenian ] misfortune."..."One might think we found a spiritual consolation in the conviction that the Russians behaved villainously towards us." Hovhannes Katchaznouni, First Prime Minister of the Independent Armenian Republic, The Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni,1923, Page 8. After the Russians, it would be the turn of the French, the Americans, the British, the Georgians, the Azerbaijanis - the whole world. Welcome to the Armenian psyche. Why is it that way? I don't know. But don't take my word for it; listen to the first prime minister of Armenia; he ought to know his people better than I.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"...Kachaznuni's government... like the wolf, eats the calf because such is its nature. That government could not live in peace and was obsessed with battling one or another of its neighbors, for like the wolf, it had to devour everything. Should not the Armenians have realized that, in view of their hostile relations with the Muslims, they must at least cling to the friendship of (Christian) Georgia? But instead they had now burned this bridge as well..." Premier Noizhordonia of Georgia, three days after Armenia attempted a land grab attempt via a surprise and unprovoked attack on its neighbor, on December 14, 1918; as reported by Professor Richard Hovannisian in his book, The Republic of Armenia, Vol. 1. Armenia would be more successful in its land grab attempt against neighbor Azerbaijan some seventy years later... in the manner of another "Pearl Harbor"-like sneak and cowardly attack, with huge monetary backing from the Russians and Americans.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"The Turkish race was... from the first black day they entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity... as far as their dominion reached, civilisation vanished from view." Source: William Gladstone, British Prime Minister, "The Bulgarian Horrors and the Question of the East," 1876. This is the kind of racism that still lingers on in the hearts and minds of most Armenians and their fellow Turk-haters who promote a bogus genocide in spite of overwhelming evidnec that it was a civil war designed, provoked, and waged by Armenians in order to create greater Armenia on Turkish soil. Armenian did get help significant direct from European powers and indirect help from the U.S. missionries, diplomats, and media. Turkish views were censored, eliminating most chances of refuting the fake Armenian charges. It is only in the last 20-30 years that unsuspecting public is learning about the truth, about the other side of the story.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"The Turks are a human cancer, a creeping agony in the flesh of the lands they misgovern, rotting every fiber of life. I am glad that the Turk is to be called to a final account (referring to the impending Greek invasion of Asia Minor ) for his long record of infamy against humanity." Source: David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, getting ready to annihilate the last remnants of the dying Ottoman Empire. Britain helped Armenians tremendously to stage rebellions against their own Ottoman government. Such racist attitudes coupled with religious discrimination were lurking beneath the Armenian demands for territory and reforms.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation." Source: David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, referring to Mustafa Kemal (later Ataturk) after Britain's plans to wipe Turkey off the face of the earth ran into a snag: Turkish Independence War. What is significant here is the fact that even a rabid racist like David Lloyd George (see his comments about Turks above)could find in himself to appreciate the greatness in a person like Ataturk whom the Diaspora Armenian, incurably filled with hatred for all things Turkish, still despise today.
| Posted by jda
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Levy writes: "Such [Denial and victim-blaming] betray the absolute, insane hatred [Turkish Denialists] harbor, against which factual evidence and debate are useless and the truth is impotent." There is no point posting to persuade Kirlikovali. Instead I recommend satire, jokes, ridicule, and lampoon. Fascists and racists rarely are finalists on "last comic standing", they have no humor. Comedy is the one thing they hate most, other than Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Alewis, Serbs, Persians, Montenegrins, Cretans, Russians, Georgians, British, Chaldeans, Nestorians and Assyrians, that is. This just in: add Israelis and Jews to the list, per Erdogan's speech yesterday ahbout Jewish media control.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"[N]one of the data provided by the archives of any of the Entente powers, the wartime enemies of the Ottoman Empire, can be viewed as entirely impeccable" Vahakn Dadrian, "The Armenian Genocide: A New Brand of Denial by the Turkish General Staff - by Proxy," Sept. 21, 2004 This is significant because even a master Armenian propagandist like Dadrian knows that documents like the Blue Book, published by the British propaganda office during WWI, and Yellow Book, published by the French propaganda office also during WWI, and others cannot be trusted. So, the question begs to be asked, why do Armenians (and their fellow Turk-haters like Levy) continue to use allied wartime propaganda to substantiate their bogus genocide claims? If you know no allied documents can be trusted, why use them against Turks just to make your mass- deception stick?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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"...[T]he Armenians' dream of independence (developed) following the example of Serbs, Greeks and others when the Ottoman Empire began to crumble... In 1915 they (Armenians) were restless again. The Turks, having their hands full already with a difficult war, took ruthless steps to quell the uprising. They deported what was meant to be the entire population of Armenia to Syria and Mesopotamia. Their organization was insufficient; a third of the Armenian population escaped deportation..." Source: R. P. Lister, "Turkey Observed," 1967. Even racist accounts like these concede that Armenians rebelled, Turks defended their home, and (some) Armenians were (temporarily resettled.) None of this point to genocide. And that's the point!
| Posted by Ergun almost
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"Everywhere they eat lamb with gusto and abandon, over-seasoning their meat with peper and garlic, flashing knives at the hapless meat, usually devouring it almost raw, often barbecuing it while they speak of Ghini and onion, without regard to the restaurant's need to turn the tables... and other times they eat flaming soujoukh on swords, and raw chee kufta, without shame" From Among Armenian Diners in Glendale, p.159
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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" .When the Russians and the Turks became enemies at war in 1914, the Armenians sided with the Russians. As soon as word spread that the Armenians were massacring Moslem Turks and Kurds and were setting up an Armenian government in Van, the Young Turks passed a law to disarm and deport them. This turned into the 1915-1916 migrations and massacres of Armenians, and was followed by counter-massacres of Muslims by Russo-Armenian forces occupying eastern Turkey n 1917-18..." Source: Eleanor Bisbee, "The New Turks," University of Pennsylvania, 1951, p. 49 Does any of this sound like a genocide? It is about a set of Ottoman wartime measures designed for home security and defense in the face of very real, treasonous, and rebellious warfare waged by Armenians and at times fought by irregulars on all sides.. but no genocide!
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
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".I am informed, on good authority, that Russia is already commencing her usual intrigues among the Armenians of Asiatic Turkey. Russian agents are being sent into the provinces inhabited by them with the object of stirring up discontent against the rule and authority of the Porte. A Russian party is being formed in the capital amongst the Armenians, which already includes some leading and influential members of that community..." Sir Henry Layard, British Ambassador, in a July 14, 1878 message to British Foreign Secretary Lord Salisbury (British Foreign Office 424/72, pages 160-161, No 211)
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
100 of 130
".The aim of the Armenian revolutionaries is to stir disturbances, to get the Ottomans to react to violence, and thus get the foreign powers to intervene..." Source: Sir Philip Currie, the British Ambassador in Istanbul, 28 March 1894 (British Blue Book, Nr.6 1894, p.57 or 87;). Armenians put into action this exact heinous plan and caused many fatalities in the neighboring Muslim communities. This was no act by "poor, starving Armenians" as we are all led to believe in the West; this was a pre-meditated hate crimes committed by "armed and motivated Armenians". Here is one of millions of proofs.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
101 of 130
".Their object has plainly been, by creating an appearance of widespread disaffection, quite out of proportion to their numbers and influence to provoke reprisals on the part of the Turkish Government and people, of a nature to draw the attention of the Powers to the manifest grievances of the Armenian nation, and the necessity for their redressal." Source: Graves, the British Consul in Erzurum, reporting to the British Ambassador in Istanbul, on January 28, 1895. British Blue Book, Nr. 6 (1894), pp. 222-223. Here is the same message given by a different person at a different time. Armenians resorted to propaganda, agitation, terror, raids, rebellions, and treason, in that order, between 1890-1915. The Tereset (Temporary Resettlement) of 1915 is the result, not cause, of hostilities. Once open-minded truth-seekers see this point, then it is obvious why the Tereset cannot be considered a genocide.
| Posted by almost ergun 2
102 of 130
The Armenians diabolically fail to admit Turks invented baseball [including the ingenious infield fly rule], hairspray, windshield wipers, cornuts, and crossword puzzles. This is cultural genocide for which they must not only apologize, but in fact surrender.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
103 of 130
"The Dashnaks and Hunchaks have terrorized their own countrymen, they have stirred up the Muslim people with their thefts and insanities, and have paralyzed all efforts made to carry out reforms; all the events that have taken place in Anatolia are the responsibility of the crimes committed by the Armenian revolutionary committees." Source: Williams, The British vice-consul, writing from Van. (March 4, 1896, British Blue Book, Nr. 8 1896, p.108.) Why isn't anyone talking about Armenian hate crime and Armenian terrorism and treason which started the Turkish-Armenian conflict in the first place?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
104 of 130
"Those who in England are loudest in their sympathy with the aspirations of a(n Armenian) people 'rightly struggling to be free' can hardly have realized the atrocious methods of terrorism and blackmail by which a handful of desperados, as careful of their own safety as they are reckless of the lives of others, have too successfully coerced their unwilling compatriots into complicity with an utterly hopeless conspiracy." Source: Lord Warkworth, after paying a visit to Van. ( William Langer, The Diplomacy of Imperialism.)
| Posted by semi Ergun
105 of 130
I have coined my own little humble gift to the [vastly inferior]English language called 'vegicide' meaning not eating your vegetables. It is an antonym for Genocide as well as ice skating. We know that secret Armenian agents everywhere seek to promote the over-consumption of fruit in place of vegetables so as to bankrupt honest Turkish vegetable growers.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
106 of 130
''.I do not deny the existence and the active propagandism of Armenian revolutionarists. I do not even deny that, to some extent, the religious war has been stimulated by Armenian political agitators...'' Source: Antranig Azhderian, "The Turk and the Land of Haig, or Turkey and Armenia - Descriptive, Historical, and Picturesque," The Mershong Company, New York, 1898, p. 364. Until and unless Armenian complicity in war crimes and hate crimes are acknowledged by the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers and Turk-Haters) community, I do not see how there can be a closure on the 100+ year old Turkish-Armenian conflict.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
107 of 130
"..Our policy is to maintain our gratefulness to Russia, but at the same time induce Britain to help our cause. Our well-being is possible only in an independent Armenia. Do not be surprised at the word, for our motto is this: 'an Armenia ruled by Armenians'." Source: Nerses Varjabedian, Armenian Patriarch, writing in 1878 to Karakin (Garegin) Papazian, the head of the Armenian Committee in Manchester, England; while Armenians began to approach the Tsar for eventual Armenian independence, and of attempting to bring Britain into the picture. (Ermeniler ve 1915 Tehcir Olayi/Armenians and the 1915 Resettlement Episode, Prof. Azmi Süslü,1990, p.45. Armenian clergymen, unfortunately, were up to their necks involved in planning murder and mayhem. They have to come clean yet and apologize to the entire world for misleading their people down a path of self-inflicted death and destruction. They must cleanse their souls by confessing and letting the world know the truth behind the bogus Armenian genocide.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
108 of 130
"I will speak a language the whole world knows, a language expressing pain and suffering. In other words, I will weep." Source: Nerses Varjabedian, Armenian Patriarch, when asked how he could undertake a political mission during the Congress of Berlin (1878) without knowing a foreign language. The significance in his reply is that he summed up entirely familiar Armenian boo-hoo'ing strategy to gain attention, in a nutshell. "The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question," Esat Uras, p. 498. Footnote appearing to represent the passage reads K. Mikaelian, The Will of the People, Istanbul, 1909, p.45; in Armenian. Current year: 2009. Nothing much seems to have changed!
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
109 of 130
"The Turks... themselves are Armenians by birth and origin." Source: Migirdich Khrimian, Armenian Patriarch and Catholicos; letter written 24 June 1878 in the Grand Hotel de Rome, Berlin, setting forth demands at the Congress. The letter "confidently" claimed Armenians "constitute three-fifths of the population," and that the Powers should therefore approve "the administration of Armenia." "The Turks would have no objection," he wrote, for they also are Armenians. "The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question," Esat Uras, p. 484; Bishop Mushegh, Armenian Immigrants in Manchester, Boston, 1911, p. 82-85 [Armenian]. . Armenian clergyme were very much behind the heinous plans of murder and mayhe of Muslims. They even stored weapons and ammunition in churches; collected money for funding arms purchases. They must come clean now and apologize to the entire world for misleading the Armenians down a path of self-inflicted death and destruction. They must cleanse their souls by confessing the truth behind the bogus Armenian genocide. Enough is enough.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
110 of 130
"The purpose of the Armenian movement has been, from the beginning, to organize as far as possible a long drawn-out fight against the Ottoman tyranny, to create in the country a continuous revolutionary state, always having before our eyes the intervention of the third factor...the European factor" Source: Mikael Varandian, Dashnak ideologue, History of the Dashnagtzoutune/A.R.Federation (Paris,1932 and Cairo,1950), p.3; also, from p. 302: (By inciting massacres, Armenians) "wanted to assure European intervention" What simple, devious, heinous, ruthless, cowardly, and treasonous plan!
| Posted by Anoosh
111 of 130
Frakly I am surprised that TNR has allowed Mr. Kirlikovali to post as he has. His posts violate more than several rules posted on this site. Moreover his spam does nothing to promote the free exchange of ideas contemplated here. His quotations are unsupported and falsified. Attempts to validate his citations are unsuccessful. He must have a magic library with magic books that say just what he wants them to. His allegations about Ambassador Morganthau's autobiography are so preposterous that they verge on hysteria. I also find it hypocritical that he relies on Amb. Morgenthau's autobiography when he feels the need yet he challenges its authenticity in his next post. For anyone who really wants to know more about the turkish government's Genocide against the Armenians, I suggest that you pick up a copy of Amb. Morgenthau's autobiography (he was the Armerican ambassador to Turkey in 1915). If you also wonder about the derivation of the word Genocide itself, take a look at Andrew Goldberg's excellent documentary which aired on PBS. You can order it from PBS or see the relevant clips on You Tube. Mr. Goldberg includes actual video footage of Mr. Lemkin himself explaining how he came to create the word Genocide. Lemkin quite clearly states that he based the word on his own experience with the holocaust and the experience of the Armenians who suffered a holocaust in 1915 at the hands of the Turks. Mr. Kirlikovali- perhaps you should leave those protected gates of your home in Coto and do some real research. Your true bias against and hatred of Armenians is blinding you. For Kirlikovali's edification,
| Posted by sadobserver
112 of 130
I can't believe how sad it is to see someone so vigilant in attacking the truth. Ergun Kirlikovali will say or create anything false to nullify true facts. He does not believe anything that non-Turks or non-Armenians say, except of course, when they agree with him. Sad,sad,sad... to see such indoctrination. It's obvious that both sides have been brought up to hate and disqualify the other. Since I was born in the United States, I feel lucky not to be surrounded by censorship. Two of my great-grandparents were killed in the genocide. My great-grandfather was a treasurer of some kind for the Ottoman Turks. He survived becaused the Turks he worked for took pity on him and gave him money and a boat and told him to escape. He was, however, not grateful because the Turks killed the rest of his family; brothers, sisters, etc.. So, what did I learn from all the stories that I heard growing up? An educated person knows that isolated incidents do not tell the whole story. You can quote all you want and even lie, but one day the truth will hit you. Who knows? Maybe one day you will find out your ancestors were really Armenian and what will you do then? Kill yourself, cry, or re-examine history with non-biased eyes. It's sad to see someone so determined to nullify the truth and full of hatred. I have worked with many Turks in the States in my job. My eye doctor is a Turk born in the States. I did not know he was Turkish, since I don't speak the language or know much about their last names. After eleven years of going to the same eye doctor, my husband noticed the doctor's diploma on the wall and said he is Turkish. I said, no way. We asked the doctor and he said, yes he was, but he does not participate in history nor the denial of it. He felt bad that he kept his identity from me as he blushed. I had once asked him if he was Eastern European because his first name is Steve, but his diploma had Sefir, or something like that. I remember years ago, he said, yes, he was "Eastern European, or something like that." He did not elaborate and I dropped the subject. Now, eleven years later, I was shocked that he was Turkish but did not want to reveal it in the beginning. I once went to another eye doctor through my eye insurance and he could not take the correct eye measurements for my contact lens, a special type. His office was closer to my home. Twice he messed up and even though, Steve was not covered by my eye insurance, I went back to Steve. Why? He is better than the other doctor and I actually pay the difference between my eye insurance and his fees. Since I was born here, I don't see a reason to continue "hating." I believe eventually the world will recognize the truth of the genocide and finally put the matter to rest. As I have worked with some Turks in my career, I, too never revealed that I was Armenian, either. They never knew and I did not feel the need to let them know and create an uncomfortable atmosphere. So, I tried to be cordial and eventually, all 4 of them, throughout my 10 year-career, moved to other companies. I don't believe in creating a hostile work environment, so I did not say anything. I just feel that "do unto others" should be the motto. I did not approve of the Dashnag "terrorist attacks of the 70's" of diplomats, but also feel that simply shooting someone for being a journalist (Hrant Dink) is crazy as well. Too bad many Armenians and Turks can't just agree that genocide happened. Why would anyone want to hear such awful stories of the genocide when they can hear positive things? That is my proof that genocide occurred. Too bad we did not have cell phones and video cameras back then. Ergun Kirlikovali would probably refute that evidence by saying it was fabricated by Armenian actors posing as Turks; such would be the brainwashed, indoctrined response. Signed, a sad observer.
| Posted by jda
113 of 130
Sad, All is not lost. 27,000 brave and honorable Turks risked life and limb merely to show compassion to Armenians, who are widely hated in Turkey.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
114 of 130
"(The Dashnaks)' aim was by crimes and assassinations to invite Turkish reprisals and massacres, and thus create an international scandal that would attract the intervention of the other powers." Source: David Thompson, "Europe Since Napoleon" (Alfred A. Knopf, 1964, 2nd. Ed.) Instead of tackling the truth, Armenian falsifiers resort to insults, deceit, libel, ridicule, intimidation, and threat. But they are no match for one's passion for truth. How come no one talks about Dashnak hate crimes? But don't worry, I managed to buy a copy of controlled circulation dashnak book. There, they list, boastfully, how many Turks they killed how, when, where, and by whom. Ah, life is full of surprises, after all.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
115 of 130
"The Dashnak revolutionary society is working to stir up a situation in which Muslims and Armenians will attack each other, and thus pave the way for Russian intervention " Source: General Mayewski, Russian Consul General in Bitlis and Van, December 1912; source: Kara Schemsi, Turcs et Armeniens devant l'Histoire, Geneve, Imprimerie Nationale, 1919, p. 11 See how many different people, widely different sources, corroborate the heinous war crimes of the Armenians? Is Levy that biased that he cannot see this?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
116 of 130
Armenians had people organized under the Turkish flag" (in Bitlis and Van, eastern Anatolia) Source: Dashnak report prepared in 1910 by M. Warandian (likely Mikael Varandian) for submission to the organization's convention in Copenhagen's Socialist International; from the archives (No. B.579238) of the Socialist International in Vandervelde, and mentioned in an article written by Orhan Kologlu in the April 2005 issue of the Turkish magazine, "Populer Tarih" (Popular History)... confirming that Armenian preparations for revolt were in the works years before the outbreak of W.W.I.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
117 of 130
"When I say that the Armenian massacres were caused by the Armenian revolutionists, I tell the truth, and a very important one, but it is not the whole truth. It would be more correct to say that the presence of the revolutionists gave occasion and excuse for the massacres. That the Turks were looking for an excuse, no one can doubt who has traversed that country." Source: George Hughes Hepworth, "Through Armenia on Horseback" (NY, 1898, p. 339); and why would the Turks have suddenly been looking for an excuse, after a millennium of peaceful coexistence? Moreover, if massacre was so decided upon, would the Turks have needed an excuse? While traveling on horseback, Hepworth no doubt encountered negative opinions on Armenians from Turks, but by this time, there were years of Armenian violence and massacre trying the Turks' patience. The inevitable conclusion: if not for the revolutionists, there would have been no massacres. At least on that final point, we can all agree.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
118 of 130
"'Do you believe that any massacres would have taken place if no Armenian revolutionaries had come into the country and incited the Armenian population to rebellion?' I asked Mr. Graves [The British consul]. 'Certainly not,' he replied. 'I do not believe that a single Armenian would have been killed.'" Source: Sydney Whitman, "Turkish Memories," London, 1914, p. 74. Any questions?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
119 of 130
"The Armenian issue, which aims at meeting the economic interests of the capitalist world rather than bearing in mind the veritable interests of the Armenians themselves was best resolved with the Kars Agreement. The friendly ties between two industrious people coexisting peacefully for centuries have been satisfactorily established anew." Source: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, 1.3.1922, Inaugural Speech of the 3rd Year of Session of the Turkish Grand National Assembly. Armenian falsifiers tried to smear this visionary leader, too. They fabricated an interview with a Mustafa Kemal in 1926 with a Swiss journalist whom professor Turkkaya Ataov traced with cooperation from the Swiss Government toreveal the fact that that Swiss journalist did not exist. Then the Armenians photo-shopped to remove a puppy at Ataturk's feet and replace it with a bunch of dad children. The Armenians spread this lie all over the world. Then, when their lie was exposed, they boasted about how smart they were! Go figure this culture that cherishes deceit, lies, and terrorism. Who do you really believe? The tricky Armenian who frequently lies here of this honest Turk?
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
120 of 130
"In fact we have an organization extraordinarily widespread in the United States. . . . It should be noticed that no attack has been made upon us in any quarter of the United States, and that in the eyes of the American people the quiet and subterranean nature of our work has the appearance of a purely private patriotism and enterprise..." Source: Sir Gilbert Parker in a letter to the British Foreign Office. By 1917, the Canadian managing Wellington House's U.S.A. branch had a list of 170,000 to send anti-German and anti-Turkish propaganda to the Who's Who of American society, targeting "every editor and molder of public opinion." That's how the Armenian falsifications were instilled into the hearts and minds of the unsuspecting Americans.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
121 of 130
"Armenians lived as local notables. They had no feeling of national unity. There were no political bonds or ties among them. Their only attachments were to the neighbouring notables. Thus whatever national feelings they had were local." Source: Kevork Aslan, Armenian historian, L'Armenie et les Armeniens, Istanbul, 1914 (No wonder they had no loyalty...)
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
122 of 130
"Wholly opportunistic, Dashnag politics have been variously pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish, as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and anti-Soviet - whichever was expedient." Source: John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), author, Cairo to Damascus Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438. Holdwater: Some sites have substituted "The Armenians" for "Dashnag politics." Not all Armenians support the Dashnaks (Carlson was a true Armenian patriot for disliking these scoundrels, who brought such misery to so many), but because the Dashnak terrorist method has been to silence all opposing voices, that works out to be a fair substitution, in my view. Those who are silent, comply.
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
123 of 130
".... Should the Armenians ever get the upper hand in Anatolia, their government would be much more corrupt than the actual administration. It was corroborated by the Armenians themselves..." Source: Fred Burnaby, "On Horseback Through Asia Minor" (Holdwater: while it sounds like the author could be talking about current Armenia, the book detailed an 1876 journey to see whether the Sultan's armies were capable of resisting yet another Russian thrust. Burnaby was reputed to be the strongest man in the British Army.)
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
124 of 130
"The Turks and Armenians got on excellently together... The Russians restricted the Armenian Church, schools and language; the Turks on the contrary were perfectly tolerant and liberal as to all such matters. They did not care how the Armenians prayed, taught and talked... The Armenians were thorough Orientals and appreciated Turkish ideas and habits... (They) were quite content to live among the Turks.... The balance of wealth certainly remained with the Christians. The Turks treated them with good-humoured confidence..." Source: Sir Charles Eliot, author, "Turkey in Europe" (London, E. Arnold, 1900); regarding the years preceding the Turkish-Russian War of 1877-78. Ingrates!
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
125 of 130
(The religious toleration of the Ottoman Government) "was complete" (and the state) "never in any way interfered with what the Christians did or taught in the schools or the churches.... it was impossible to desire more absolute liberty of worship or teaching." Source: Gratan Geary, "Through Asiatic Turkey" (London, M.S. and R. Sampson, 1878) And how did the Armenians thank? Wids raids, rebellions, treason, land demands, propaganda, agitation, bloodshed. And when Turks responded with Tereste (temporary resettlement) they cried genocide. Who do you believe? The tricky Armenian or the honest Turk? Who?
| Posted by jda
126 of 130
I forgot Arabs
| Posted by Ergun Kirlikovali
127 of 130
"The Armenians change their position relating to Rome and the Persian Empire, sometimes supporting one and sometimes the other ... they are a strange people" Source: Tacitus, Roman historian; his Annalum Liber (EK: Tell me about it!)
| Posted by almost Errorgun
128 of 130
It has come to my attention that the American puppets of the International Armenian Conspiracy each day demean Turkish people by calling our glorious home "Turkey", a dry, flightless bird unworthy of our Ottoman and Turkish culture. We demand that from now on you use the word 'Turkiye'and refer to Armenia, Northern Syria, Northern Iraq, pretty much all of Russia, Alaska and Greece as "occupied Turkiye". We have lawyers.
| Posted by pn2009
129 of 130
The comments of the Turkish ultra-nationalists here are even more reason to sign this act of muslim mass murder of infidels in 1915 into law ASAP. The so-called "Turkish-Americans" are clearly not integrated into American judeo-christian society but neither are any other muslims in the West living among infidels. The Koran made the Turks do it in 1915. It is clear that it was jihad as their own sultan proclaimed. Turkish Muslim liars practicing Islamic Taqqiya in the lands of the infidels ! Non-Muslims beware!
| Posted by S4200
130 of 130
Too many innocent ones died. The Turkish nation is improving, but has not been rehabilitated like Germans. When enlightened leaders emerge, we hope Turkey and the Armenians will make peace. How about a parallel Armenian rehabilitation?
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