by Sinan RUSHTUNI
On the following interview with Sukru Server AYA:
"What is really sacrificed is the TRUTH, that is what and some of my American, Armenian, French, Dutch, Turkish friends are trying to defend."
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PART I
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From: MACREAU
Date: April 18, 2011 12:32:33 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
Subject: Re: RE-3: About Mr. Aya - Comments on the interview
From: ssaya
Subject: Re: [From Macreau] About Mr. Aya - Comments on the interview
Date: April 18, 2011 3:33:20 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
On-Line Discussion Continues - Latest as of April 18, 2011:
(For the initial comments of Sinan Rushtini, please see the earlier correspondences under neath of this section.)
[by MACREAU/Sinan RUSHTUNI]
Bircan Hanim,
I am not going to debate the whole Armenian question with Mr. Aya. His views are identical to the Turkish Governments view, thus it is redundant to go back and forth. He may try to contradict 146 Genocide scholars' views on a TV show and try to sway some uninitiated opinions to his side but what we have witnessed on the world wide academia of genocide studies makes it "deveye kahve icirmek."
[By Sukru Server AYA]
Give my best regards to those "lazy-sloppy-biased academia" and invite them to refute the documents I show; they are all authentic documents! If they are the "three-monkey-type" scholars, too bad that there are so many of them defending genocide.
We need no sloppy scholars to dupe us with their unfounded palavers. History is written by DOCUMMENTS, no palavers, no big mouth persons giving sermons a century later. Sorry, you have to swallow and digest these documents Mr. Rushtuni... If you do not have the guts to admit truth, why do you comment for the second time? In 2008 you had written that I cannot even speak English? Now you try to defy documents simply by "numbers of grand-ma-story-teller-schollars"! If that is enough for you, be happy!
Sinan RUSHTUNI: One last question which I asked but Mr.Aya did not answer. It is a straight forward question. Why does the Berlin archives contain many documents and copies of telegrams sent by German officials from Turkey , succinctly describing the genocide? Was not Germany war time partner of Turkey? Why would your partner describe murders, massacres of Armenians to their HQ in Berlin?
Sukru Server AYA-Reply: From text of "Treaty of Alliance" dated Aug.2,1914, signed by Ambassador von Wangenheim and Said Halim (Grand Vizier).
* * * * *
Sukru Server AYA-Reply Continues- Par.3: In case of war, Germany will leave her military mission at the disposal of Turkey. According to the previous agreements, which were effective immediately, between his Excellency the Turkish war minister and his Excellency, Chief of the German military mission, Turkey on her part assures said military mission of an effective influence on general command of (Turkish) army.
Par.4 : In event of a threat Germany pledges, in case of need to defend territory of Ottoman Empire with arms.
Note to article 3: The Turks desired this wording in consideration of fact his Majesty the sultan is commender in chief of Turkish army. General Liman, however, officially informed me beforehand he has effected a detailed agreement with War Minister Enver Pasha which guarantees actual command to military mission.> (above lines were underlined by S.S.AYA. L.M.)
Last Word: Above excerpt prove that German General Liman von Sanders was in total command of the Ottomany Army and hence bears FIRST Responsibility. General Bronsart was deputy War Minister and he was signing directly on behalf of Enver Pasha! Your question should be directed to German authorities, to explain this paradox!
Question: ASK YOUR REFERRED 146 SCHOLARS WHY THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT GERMANS WERE IN COMMAND OF THE TURKISH ARMY AND TURKISH ARMY FOLLOWED THEIR ORDERS! This is the DEAD END ANSWER TO LAZY SCHOLARS AND RESEARCHERS from an old man, who took the matter seriously! I would not be surprised if they "cannot find even this document"! But they make declarations by hundreds!
Bye bye Mr. Rushtuni...You are free to believe in what you want, which is not TRUE! Unless you or your 146 scholars cannot prove any of my given documents and excerpts to be wrong, please do not wrıte me ever agaın (unless you learn first)!
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On-Line Discussion Previous - From April 14-16, 2011:
1: From: MACREAU
Subject: About Mr. Aya
Date: April 13, 2011 12:11:41 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
"Dear Sir,
Without going into details of Mr.Aya's "Conversation " with you and analyzing it I would like to make few comments.
He mentions a very obscure Fresno, USA. newspaper cautioning its readers about believing the genocide of Armenians because it could not be true. Fine, that is the opinion of that particular newspaper's editor. How come he is not mentioning other USA newspapers of the time ? Let's go briefly over them:
The New York Times:January 11, 1915 Title ...Says Turks advise Christians to Flee
January 13, 1915 Title Christians in Great Peril
March 20, 1915 Title Whole Plain Strewn by Armenian Bodies
March 22, 1915 Title Turks Renew Massacres
April 28, 1915 Title Appeal to Turkey to Stop Massacres.
July 29, 1915 Title Wholesale Massacres of Armenians by Turks
August 6, 1915 Title Armenian Horrors Grow
August 18, 1915 Title Armenians are sent to Perish in desert
September 17, 1915 Title The death Of Armenia
Septepber 27, 1915 Title Tales of Armenian Horrors Confirmed
Current History: October 1922 Issue
Title Crimes of Turkish Misrule
There are many other publications to mention but we have no room here to list them.
Here is the clincher that Aya does not mention. Of course how could he, it would destroy his "truth" United States has the official records on the Armenian Genocide. Has Mr.Aya ever read any of them? If he did, probably did, why does he not mention them?
Here is a partial list of documents that expose Turkish atrocities and genocide of Armenians:
FILE NUMBER
NA/RG 59/867.4016/350
NA/RG 59/867. 4016/386
NA /RG 59 /867.00/739
NA/RG 59/867.00/ 760
ETC..ETC..ETC..
There are too many enumerate here. It is quite obvious that Mr.Aya is very good in choosing and picking information to fit his agenda. Thus, his key words " moral values", " Truthful" "decent" are good only on paper and not in practice.
Oh...yes...he is very eloquent in his presentation of misrepresent facts, innuendos.
The most probably you will not post these lines as it does not fit to your agenda, nevertheless thank you for your time.
Sinan Rushtuni"
A discussion in between Sinan RUSHTUNI & Sukru Server AYA
based on the Light Millennium's interview:
"What is really sacrificed is the TRUTH, that is what and some of my American, Armenian, French, Dutch, Turkish friends are trying to defend."
From: MACREAU
Subject: RE-2: About Mr. Aya - Comments on the interview
Date: April 14, 2011 11:38:18 AM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
From: SSAYA
Subject: Re: Fwd: About Mr. Aya - On Sinan Rushtuni's today's response
Date: April 16, 2011
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
Sukru Server AYA: I am not clear if I am to respond to Macreau or Sinan Rushtuni; it is not so important for me, but I don't want to be part of any later mud slinging. The commentary is very politely worded and I give my short time attention.
Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: There is no mud slinging Sukru Bey just disagreement on your analysis of events.
Sukru Server AYA: First of all, I think that I have mentioned that butcheries have been bilateral. I had to give some examples to contradict the claims of innocence and victimization!
Sukru Server AYA: 2: I am glad that there has been some positive change from time I received a Macreau comment about the presentation of my book in April 2008. (See posting)
Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: Every action and reaction has degrees of severity. I have not read your examples, I am sure they look quite convincing, that contradict victimization and innocence. It seems that you have not gone to the core problem of Turco-Armenian relastionship.
Sukru Server AYA: I did not “write” books, I just “compiled excerpts from neutral or anti-Turkish sources” and shared with readers, leaving the conclusions to each one. It is not within my authority to make psychological analysis. I am objective and only laid “plain documented facts”!
Why should people of the same region, (may be same DNA), totally interlinked in their life principles, be affection or brutality differ when it colmes to "race, nationality or faith"?
Sinan RUSHTUNI -2: Good question..It is a known fact that the Sublime Port has left the Eastern provinces to their own device. It is also known fact that Armenians were the pions of Kurdish tribes. In 1860's a delegation of Armenians from the region of BULANIK (in those times if was a region not the city like today) go to Sublime port to complain their mistreatment in the hands of Kurds.The "Vezir" of that time threatens to put them in jail and tells them if they are not happy where they are , they could be replaced by Cherkez tribes. This was the culmination of mistreatments that spark the revolutionary fervor. After this date self defense forces started to form to protect their lives, belongings etc.etc. which was the start of the Armenian political parties.
Sukru Server AYA-2: I did not elaborate about the Ottoman rule, (the sick man of Europe, pray of imperial powers to be partitioned) and of course with administrative corruptions, which prevail even today in many “very familiar countries”! The “self-defense forces” (?) was a natural continuation of the national inspirations which had started in Greece and expanded in the Balkans and were supported by Christian Super Powers, plus teachings of the Missionaries!
Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: You mentioned mutual atrocities. I am not denying that. BUT....yes there is a BIG BUT....You fail to mention ( conveniently) the time line.. The genocide started in 1915 , however the Armenian atrocities started much later in 1917. The feelings of revenge by Russian Armenians to avenge the massacre of their brethren was quite understandable, considering that according Herbert Lock " homo homini Lupus". Man are like wolves, they eat each other (wolves are not cannibals, just his misconception")
Sukru Server AYA-2:
a- Refer to “Armenians-1915.blogspot.com” enter # 1449, read Dashnaks Manifest given to 1910 Copenhagen Socialist Congress, detailing revolution readiness!
b- What started in 1915 end of May, was TEMPORARY RELOCATION (after the City of Van was conquered by Armenians in mid April) and not GENOCIDE!
c- Refer to (above blog) #2187 for excerpts from Pastermadjian’s Book “Why Armenia Should be Free” or view the whole book at the end of posting #2429, my book presentation, see that Armenian Volunteers had taken oath and action in October 1914 (War started on Nov.2nd). Read details about the service of Armenians to Russians in Nov.1914 when entering East Anatolia, and also their great assistance in reversing the Turkish Sarikamish attack, which ended in disaster in late Dec. 1914 – early 1915, whereby some 80.000 Turkish soldiers perished.
d- What started in late 1917 was the Armenian mass killings in Erzurum-Erzincan when Russians had quitted the front and Armenian forces were retracting towards Erivan destroying all villages en route!
Sukru Server AYA-1: suspect that "my words may not be enough and they will have to be supported by strong references". Given the amount of "hair and reference counting" I am afraid that my "word to word" response and references may end up in not less than 6-10 pages. Such a long lace-work reply can only be done over the weekend and if you can wait until Monday... you have to tell me now, so I reserve my weekend for this! Otherwise, I give the following "condensed answers" within my general knowledge by heart, and not sending time on evidencing sources.
A. N.Y. Times: Without exception, all Christian newspapers, needed news against Muslims to meet the expectations of the readers. Propaganda-Information was one of the top war weapons, conducted from the Wellington House, by Lord Bryce and Arnold Toynbee. "Reuters" was the ONLY NEWS agency distributing news from London by cable all over the world. Why should the British distribute any news favoring their enemy, the Turks and Germans? The first rule of journalism is: "If a dog bites a man, that's no news, but if a man bites a dog, that is the news". My examples were the exceptions which escaped the world censorship by chance or mistake. Yet in the early and middle parts of 1915, there was two American Journalists right on the Dardanelles front, one was the Associated Press Representative and the other the Chicago Tribune correspondent; both had come from Germany and evidenced the Dardanelles war. We find several other references in Morgenthau's diary regarding his conversations with the A.P: representative who later wrote an excellent book, with dependable neutral (?) observations.
The "appeals to stop massacres" (even before landing and relocations) was a simple propaganda tactic to threaten Turks and cause disagreement within their government.
The A.P. correspondent wrote that "massacres was only a joke or simple world brain washing"! Which one of these British-American sources should we credit ? I would go for the Asoc.Press man. The news Reuters got was from Sofia, cables sent by Armenian "translators-dragomans" to Sofia, with exaggeration or distortions were transferred to London, where they were re-fitted for world distribution. If you need verbatim references that may take a few pages, you have to wait until Monday.
Sinan RUSHTUNI -2: I am sure these correspondents wrote what you say they wrote..but isn't it convenient for your purpose? Among many , many reports of massacres you cherry pick the one you see fit and disregard the others as "propaganda". Let's say for the sake of argument that they were "propaganda" by the enemies of Turkey. How about German archives? Your ally during the war. Is there any reason why you patron and ally should disclose those massacres to their HQ in Berlin?
Sukru Server AYA 1: B. CURRENT HISTORY: I have not used books, other than those of Armenian leaders and historians. I am basing myself on the reports of American eye witnesses (General Harbord 1919 Report) and Captain Emory Niles & Sutherland detailed expedition reports. For additional support I have Russian generals' reports, Armenian Memo to Paris Peace Conference, Armenia and Settlement booklet of British and Antranik's speeches in London... Why should "Christians" write anything pro-Muslim, when they were there to convert Muslims into Christianity? There are almost ONE million documents in the open - classified Ottoman archives and I have not used one.
Since the Dashnak archives are closed and will remain closed not to show the blood soaked pages or braveries, I have used some Armenian historians who gave some hints about the Armenian archives they used partially. Again, if I start counting it will take pages...But all these have been on the internet in my first book and so far no one could refute a single reference. Why not read my book and over 2000 verbatim excerpts, and write to the blog your objections or errors you discover? Let us be punctual, precise. They are all in the "armenians-1915.blogspot.com" E-library. My findings has been on the open buffet for years; just tell "which one is not true"; please don't expect extra room service!
C. MORAL VALUES: For better coverage, I would suggest that the parties read my London Conference on Jan.30,2009, posted since then on the "armenians-1915.blogspot.com" under Number 2730 and again under number 2733. Parties who disagree with what I shared with my audience in London, can send their comments for posting as counter comments.
Last Word: Very few of us got in this "fanfare of grudge and hatred, because we want to defend truth, whatever it is, and settle for reason and compassion". Those who want to drag us into a mud slinging or hate war will not be able to see us in that arena. But we can donate some photos showing elementary school children being taught how to use arms and kill Turks and become staunch enemies of the humankind!
Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: I agree with you, by the same token how about Turkish history books where Armenians are the "enemy" and from the first grade to high school the enemy is either Greek or Armenian... I remember from my school days when the history teacher would talk about the Eastern front and talk about treacherous Armenians " yok..ama siz onlardan degilsiniz" what kind of statement is that? If this is not mud slinging, what is it??
Sukru Server AYA: I would not enjoy "hating anyone" especially Armenians with whom I always got extremely friendly! Did I make myself clear? How many of the E-books or documents have you studied Sirs? Why you insist in looking at only one face of the muddy or bloody coin?
How can any one jump into so many conclusions without reading anything other than a friendly one hour interview?
Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: You are wrong. Nobody is jumping into any conclusions just rising questions to your analysis of past events. One last question : Do you think that USA Official Archives have fake documents???
-Sinan Rushtuni
Sukru Server AYA 2: a) To the best of my knowledge the British could not find any “valid document” in the US Archives so that they could indict some 144 Ottoman dignitaries held in Malta for trial for over 2 years. If you had read my analysis about the “distortions and some lies” of Ambassador Morgenthau, you could have seen that the Missionary Reports were biased, pro-Christianity/Armenianism. The answer is that “they were not fake documents, but they were grossly exaggerated and distorted." For example, the Relief Report speaks of 1.414.000 Armenians alive at the end of 1921! According to your evaluation “this must be true because it is official”! If I was asked privately I would have said that the figure was inflated so that more financial aid could be secured. We learn from Katchaznuni and Lalaian’s books that the population of Armenia in early 1918 was One Million, but during the two year Dashnak rule 195.000 died of starvation and epidemics in Armenia. Hence the population should have been 800.000 + about 120.000 in Western Anatolia or a total of about 950.00 at most.
Of course there are a lot of "massacre talks"nin the US Congress and Senate minutes, but what counts is the General Harbord and Captain Emory Niles reports, plus the statement of League of Nations Secrertary Dr. F. Jensen in the official gazette in 1928. These are all shown in my last book. Most paragraphs were posted by armenians-blogspot.
b- Apparently, Rushtuni is not even aware that the overall command of the Ottoman Army was entrusted to Germany or General Liman von Sanders; and this was one of the conditions for the 5 million Ottoman Gold coins they gave as credit with 6% interest to Turks to enter war. General Bronsart von Schellendorf was the general staff and deputy acting on behalf of the Turkish War Ministry. The orders were given by Germans, carried on by Turks as per agreement. Germans did not even accept the "Sultan to be shown as Commander of All Forces"! These are all shown in books and some in PPS presentation. Sorry, no special personal service for those who do not learn first!
- Sukru S. Aya
* * * * *
For Posting:
From: ssaya@superonline.com
Subject: RE: About Mr. Aya - Comments on the interview - Apri. 14
Date: April 14, 2011 5:51:37 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
"Dear Bircan Hanim,
a- As you know, we have to go through other blogs in Turkey to access "armenians-1915.blogspot.com", while you can just click!
b- Macreau is a well known reactioner. Going back to some old postings I found the followings, and you are welcome to know my past efforts, better!
* My book "The Genocide of Truth" presentation was posted under No. 2429, and can be still unloaded from there, plus five later attachments of documents.
If Macreau or alike had done their home work, they should have been careful in critizing my interview. Read and learn for yourself.
* A few weeks later Ara Baliozian had sent a Book Review under No. 2444 which I had replied. At that time Macreau had added the following comment
THE GENOCIDE OF TRUTH. By Sukru Server Aya. 702 pages. Illustrated.
Index. Bibliography. Istanbul: Commerce University Publications. 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------
This book's contents are not surprising at all. Just consider the following : The author is born in 1930 and is the product of Turkish educational system (read as glorified Turkish history). I even bet that he does not read or write any foreign languages so that he could consult foreign sources dealing with the events of 1915.
As a matter of fact another nail was nailed to the coffin of Turkish spinmeisters. Until today we all talked about Austrian, German sources, and NOW we have found Swedish sources in Swedish archives dealing with what we all
know.....the Armenian genocide perpetrated by Ottomans.
Let Mr. Aya bask under the sun of is Turkish masters..."
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PART II
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From: MACREAU
Subject: Re: On-line discussion page is updated - RE-4: About Mr. Aya - Comments on t...
Date: April 18, 2011 6:40:10 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
Hello again,
Mr.Aya's still does not give an answer to my last question.
Nobody talked about who was running the war machine. I certainly did not raised the question. Mr.Aya is coming out from nowhere and talking about the lack of knowledge of historians' ( lazy according to him ) as who was in command.
Every child from the fifth grade ( at least in Turkey ) knows that Germans were the big boss'. This is was not the question.
If no massacres ( I am not using the word genocide, because you will probably claim that word was not invented in 1915) took place WHY Germans were sending telegrams to their Head Quarters in Berlin exposing these massacres?. These documents are available in Germany.
Why should your wartime boss lie about it if it is not true?
Here is one sample from Count Wolff-Metternich
German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire July 10, 1916, cable to the German Chancellor
In its attempt to carry out its purpose to resolve the Armenian question by the destruction of the Armenian race, the Turkish government has refused to be deterred neither by our representations, nor by those of the American Embassy, nor by the delegate of the Pope, nor by the threats of the Allied Powers, nor in deference to the public opinion of the West representing one-half of the world.
Here are some Turkish views :
Turkish Quotes - Beginning with multiple quotes from the 3 rulers of wartime Turkey, Cemal Pasha, Enver Pasha and Talat Pasha:
Enver Pasha: "One of the triumvirate rulers publicly declared on 19 May 1916..."
The Ottoman Empire should be cleaned up of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation.
In reply onto our underlings and I am entirely willing to accept the responsibility myself for everything that has tato US Ambassador Morgenthau who was deploring the massacres against Armenians and attributing them to irresponsible subalterns and underlings in the distant provinces, Enver's reply was...
You are greatly mistaken. We have this country absolutely under our control. I have no desire to shift the blame
Talat Pasha: "In a conversation with Dr. Mordtmann of the German Embassy in June 1915..."
Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention.
After the German Ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question in 1918, Talat said "with a smile"...
What on earth do you want? The question is settled. There are no more Armenians.
Cemal Pasha To a German officer upon seeing the deportations in Mamure said..."I am ashamed of my nation (Ich schame mich fur meine Nation)"
Minister of the Interior of Turkey publicly declared on March 15 that on the basis of computations undertaken by Ministry Experts...
800,000 Armenian deportees were actually killed...by holding the guilty accountable the government is intent on cleansing the bloody past.
Prince Abdul Mecid: "Heir-Apparent to the Ottoman Throne, during an interview..."
I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided. It is the program.'
Grand Vezir Damad Ferid Pasha: "Equivalent rank in the US would be head of the cabinet I think. He described the treatment of the Armenians as...
A crime that drew the revulsion of the entire humankind."
Mustafa Arif - Minister of Interior stated on 13 December 1918: "Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation... it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.
Of course those Turkish quotes are all lies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing but mud slinging..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What did Mustafa Kemal say about these massacres that did not happen (!!!)
Founder of the modern Turkish Republic in 1923 and revered throughout Turkey, in an interview published on August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, talking about former Young Turks in his country...
These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule.
Sincerely
Sinan Rushtuni
* * * * *
Sukru Server AYA's REPLY to the above comments and questions as of April 18, 2011:
From: ssaya01@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Sukru Bey - Another one from Rushtuni!!! Fwd: On-line discussion page is updated - RE-4: About Mr. Aya - Comments on t...
Date: April 19, 2011 6:32:04 AM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org
Dear Bircan Hanim,
This is the very last message on Mr. Rushtuni because he is an incurable fanatic, unwilling to reconcile or look to both sides of the "bloody and muddy" coin! I had indicated at the very start that "butcheries were bilateral" but he insists to portray a totally innocent - victimized Armenian, and place the blame for everything (even when fighting against revolutionary rebels -traitors) on Turks, and now says that he knew that the boss were Germans! So, why you do not accuse Germans but show me some correspondence of the German ambassador who came after Wangenheim died, and did not know even what his predeccessor had signed?
In my essay posted by "armenians-1915.blogspot.com" under no. 2610, (you can refer to), I had given verbatim quotes not only from Pastermadjian's book (which apparently he still did not read to accept the words of this great Armenian patriot), but more important I gave quotes from the official memorandum of the Armenian Delegation to
Paris Conference, in which their treason is confessed in detail. They had asked a huge land "free of no Christians" and claimed that they are over a million to fill up that huge area... and this was only 5 months after they had expressed their thanks to Sultan Vahdettin in Istanbul on Sept.6, 1918!.
There are HUNDREDS of pages describing Armenian atrocities, the most remarkable being that of Captain Emory Niles. I am attaching a few other excerpts I started to pick but quitted since it will take tens of pages.
CONCLUSION: Armenians in the Western Anatolia (also Protestant and Catholics or families of those in official jobs) where they were no threat, were not touched. Those in strategic areas were relocated (including the innocent ones who forcefully had to feed-support the revolutionists), rarely some attacks by brigands did happen, 48
gendarmes were killed in fights, but some groups have been robbed, some nice girls kidnapped by some Kurdish tribesmen, some Armenian children took refuge in Moslem houses and shown as Moslems while some converted willingly to escape relocation. Death toll was heavy and equal on both Armenian and Moslem population, owing to epidemics and starvation. There were no young Turkish men in the villages, all were
in the army.
Turks did not give flowers to Armenians, when they found all their houses burned, families killed! I have nothing further to argue with Mr. Rushtuni who is saturated with hatred and grudge, which may be he needs to satisfy his ego. I will appreciate if you do not forward anything more by this stubborn person which inssists in "not reading
anything that may distract his prejudice"!
(P.S. about Pope Bendict's efforts to stop the war refer to my new book. In early Feb.1916, Morgenthau had gone back to USA and the new ambassador Elkus was still in USA; despite diplomatic status, USA was not neutral during 1914 - 1927! Re Mustafa Arif on Dec.18, 1918: The Ottomans had surrendered on Oct.30,1918 and a puppet Ottoman Government was in charge! )
B. rgds
Aya
* * * * *
For RUSHTUNİ - additional selection, annex to posting TA 2610
(From A. Nassibian – Britain & the Armenian Question” )
P.76: The German ambassador had once stated that they ‘appear to be pure invention.’ He was also said, however, to have defended the Turks, action as a necessary wartime measure… However, it was generally believed in Washington that no official action would be taken unless American missionaries or American property suffered wrong.
P.90: Djemal Pasha, as commander of the Fourth Army, was himself ‘furious’ that the deportees were sent to far-away Mesopotamia, thus hindering the movement of the Ottoman troops, instead of being resettled in central Anatolia.
P.97: During the war, the Caucasian armies, including Armenian volunteers, had crossed the Turkish frontier and had occupied three of the six Armenian vilayets. Now with the disintegration of the Caucasian front, not only these provinces but also that of Erevan in the Russian Caucasus were in danger. Who would defend them against the Turks? Moreover, Armenians did not know what objectives they were being asked to fight for. They were uncertain and worried about their future. About 150.000 Caucassian Armenians had loyally fought in the Tsarist armies.... But in the re-conquered portions of Armenia, Armenian landowners had been evicted and Tatar and Cossack settlers put in their place... Thus, it was mainly in order to stimulate further the war efforts of the Armenians on the fast-disintegrating Caucassian front that the British leaders found themselves necessarily having to make generously sympathetic statements about the liberation of Armenia.
Antranik:
P.106: Furthermore, various Armenian groups outside the republic’s frontiers, went on fighting the Turks even after the Treaty of Batum. Thus General Andranik (Ozanian) the ‘quiet, dignified and soldierly’ hero of the Turkish-Armenians, the officer for whom the British War Office had ‘a good deal’ of respect, had been fighting of the Turks the whole way back to Erzerum to Karabagh. He ‘absolutely refused’ to make peace with the Turks, minuted a member of the Foreign Office staff. Denouncing both signatories and the Treaty of Batum for handing over the Armenian Plateau to Turkey, Andranik continued his fight in Zangezur.. Likewise, in Baku, it was the nationalist Armenians, in an unholy alliance with the local Soviet, which to a large extent kept the Turks out of the oil center until 16 Sept.1918, that is only about a month before the Armistice of Mudros was signed. For Caucasian Armenia, there was first of all immense human burdens of the thousands of refugees, the remnant of the decimated population of Turkish Armenia. There was also, initially, the necessity
P.115: … the gallant resistance of the Armenians in defense of their liberties and honour… He also referred to the Armenian soldiers ‘still fighting’ in the ranks of the British, French and American armies, and to the part they had borne in General Allenby’s great victory in Palestine.
P.156: The Turkish Armenian leader General Andranik and his partisans entered Zangezur in July, destroyed a number of Moslem settlements, and brought the central region of the country under Armenian control. On 2 December 1918 Andranik and his volunteers crossed the Karabagh border. Within a few days the Karabagh Armenians might have come under the jurisdiction of the Republic of Armenia. General Thomson, however, commanding at Baku, sent instructions to Andranik to stop all military operations and return to Zangezur. Thomson approved Azerbaijani government's choice of Dr. Khosrov Bek Sultanov, a notorious Armenophobe, as the Governor General of the two regions. At the end of 1918 the Armenian government had expelled a number of Moslems from Daralagiaz and repopulated the villages with Armenian refugees
P.209: Kemal ‘gladly’ accepted the offer of mediation. He added that the Turkish government had postponed military operations in the provinces of Kars, Ardahan and Batum on receipt of Chicherin’s note. In 1920 Armenian troops moved into Olti, a district rich in coal, on the Russian side of the pre-war Russo-Turkish frontier, as a preliminary step towards the Treaty of Sèvres. Bekir Sami claimed that Olti formed part of the Ottoman Empire under the Treaties of Brest-Litvosk and Batum. He therefore requested the withdrawal of the Armenian troops ‘without any delay’. The Armenian government however, rejected both treaties as bases for the relations between the two countries. The district was an incontestable part of the Armenian republic. Having signed the Peace Treaty with Turkey, Armenia would await the decision of the President of the United States and was not crossing the former Russo-Turkish frontier. Thus, in the summer of 1920, Armenia based her claims on the Treaty of Sèvres; Kemalist Turkey on the Treaties of Brest-Litvosk and Batum although Brest-Litvosk had been renounced by Soviet Russia in the autumn of 1918
P.219: The crushing Treaty of Alexandropol left Armenia with a territory of 27.000 square kilometers: Kars and Surmalu, including Mount Ararat would go to Turkey; Nakhichevan and Zangezur would become Azerbaijani protectorates; Armenia would be permitted to have a detachment of only 1.500 soldiers equipped with 20 machine-guns and 8 cannons; compulsory military service forbidden. Turkey would have the right to supervise goods entering Armenia. Finally, Armenia would declare the Treaty of Sèvres null and void; the representatives of the Allies should leave. The only Armenian state permitted by Karabekir was a tiny protectorate wholly dependent on Turkish goodwill.
The renunciation of the Treaty of Sèvres by Armenia had been the pre-condition for Turkish negotiations. But it had also been the only major condition asked by Soviet Russia in return for her mediation in securing the pre-war Russian frontier. She had in addition agreed to recognize her independence. The offer was rejected. Had it been accepted, Kars and Surmalu might have been within Armenian territory, the war might have ended earlier and Karabekir’s troops would not have wrought death and destruction as thoroughly as if they were committed to annihilation.
From James Grabill, “Protestant Diplomacy & the Near East:”
P.59: “ When Enver’s forces moved across the Russian-Turkish border through the Bardiz pass, Russian-Armenian volunteers held them up at Sarikamish. This Armenian effort gave a Russian military unit to group and defeat the Turks. After this failure, The Committee became convinced that Turkish Armenians were traitors, that not only should the police imprison and execute them but the Army should shoot them.
P.60: The Turks fled. Next, Armenians burned and murdered: the spirit of loot took possession of them. Soon Turkish civilians found shelter and medical treatment in the American Board compound. By August 1915 the Russians had retreated toward Tiflis, with Americans and Armenians joining the exodus. Amid epidemics in this awful withdrawal, Mrs. Ussher and another missionary wife died. Ussher himself barely survived successive cases of typhus, pneumonia, and dysentery; Yarrow nearly succumbed also.
Related links:
-An Exclusive Interview with Sukru Server AYA: "What is really sacrificed is the TRUTH, that is what and some of my American, Armenian, French, Dutch, Turkish friends are trying to defend."
-"A SEARCH OF PEACE and HARMONY, through ETHICS and DECENCY versus POLITICS and DUPLICITY" - US Conference Notes by Sukru Server AYA
- Biography of Sukru Server Aya
- Armenian-1915 Blog
- Near East Relief Report, April 22, 1922
- Tallarmeniantale.Com
- Concern People To Set the Record Straight - CPISTRS.Org
Click Here For The Direct Link For The Document: On-Line Discussion: Sinan Rushtuni/Macreau-Sukru Server Aya
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http://www.lightmillennium.org/2011_25th/ssaya_rushtuni.html
Part 2:
http://www.lightmillennium.org/2011_25th/ssaya_rushtuni2.html
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15 June 2011 Update
Reply To Unclear Comment By Ara Baliozian Below
Further Reference Article: U.S. Holocaust Museum And Politicized Ghosts
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