3194) Turkish-Armenian Conflict: What Now? Exclusive Interview With ERGÜN KIRLIKOVALI, President-Elect, ATAA

Washington DC, USA, December 28, 2010

We asked all the controversial questions on our readers’ minds and received pretty candid, informative, and stimulating responses from the president-elect of ATAA (the Assembly of Turkish American Associations.) You can find his bio at the organization’s official and sole website: www.ataa.org. ATAA is a non-profit, non-governmental organization established in Washington DC, USA, in 1979, as an umbrella for the local and regional Turkish-American non-profit organizations coast-to-coast, representing about half a million Turkish American citizens on matters important to Turkey-USA relations. The ATAA does not own, operate or moderate any other information sharing sites or chat groups, although some groups use the acronym ATAA without consent or approval of the ATAA. It has been generally observed that the ATAA has been quite vocal in the recent years in media, academia, and politics , with concerted efforts to educate public. In fact, the ATAA was instrumental in defeating the H.Res. 252 last week. This interview should give our readers some insight into the minds behind the ATAA’s success.

: There is much to cover, so let’s start with the most recent events. There has been yet another attempt to resuscitate H.Res. 252 in the U.S. Congress on the eleventh hour. Knowing full well that the Republic of Turkey and the Turkish people would put up a fierce resistance to stop the resolution and would probably succeed, too, why do you think Pelosi resorted to such a risky political move in the last few hours of the 111th Congress?

: I cannot speak for Pelosi but I suppose she’s got her own calculations that showed another outcome. If that’s the case, she is misinformed... again. Democrats, as you know, took a beating in the November elections which caused Pelosi to lose her title as the speaker of the House. I am not sure if Pelosi would have been in the mood for a second major defeat so quickly and so close to high holidays. It was almost like pointing at your chin and say “Hit me right here!” (smiles.)

It could also be for show. Even if she lost, Pelosi would be able to say to her Armenian voters “Look, I tried. I kept my promise.” This way, Armenian support would continue./ What Pelosi et al failed to consider was high powered demands coming from the executive and legislative branches not to pursue H.Res. 252 and similar requests and advises from the business, industry, and voter community groups. Such intense and instant pressure burst Pelosi’s bubble. Even Pelosi could not ignore the serious destruction she would cause to American interests if she brought this ill-informed and malicious resolution to a vote.

: You think HR 252 would lose, though, if came to a floor vote?

: The vote would probably be close but no cigar. It would definitely lose, that much I can say. And I say this because most of those who oppose this racist and dishonest resolution would put America’s interests before Armenia’s interest as soon as they are informed as much. At the end of the day, the patriotic feelings in these people would rise and dictate that H.Res. 252 be categorically rejected. After all, H.Res. is not only anti-Turkish and anti-truth, but it is also downright anti-American.

: Can you expand on that?

: I would be delighted to. For instance, check this poster out.

This photo is straight from Armenian literature . [1] It shows the personnel and students of the ARF Military Academy in Bulgaria, 1907-1907 class. Military academy? In Bulgaria? In 1906? Yes, yes, and yes. Welcome to the real Armenian problem. As you can see, Armenian revolts and acts of treason and terrorism did not start in 1915 as commonly misrepresented by pseudo scholars who call themselves genocide scholars. They started decades ago. According to a reputable British source, 120,000 Muslims, mostly Turkish, were killed by Armenian nationalists in 1914 [2a]. And that does not even take into account the infamous Van Rebellion by Armenians in April of 1915. [2b][2c] Where are the Muslim, mostly Turkish, victims of these trained, armed, uniformed Armenian insurgents? You cannot find a single word about these Armenian hate crimes and war crimes in that biased and ill-informed H.Res. 252. This is a racist attitude on the part of the Armenians and their self-serving allies.

How important is this? Well, consider this: The U.S. crossed oceans and continents to wage a trillion dollar global war on terrorism because 3,000 of its citizens were killed on American soil. Why is it, then, so difficult to understand that the Ottoman Empire, having lost more than 160,000 of its citizens in the 12 month period running from May 1914 , resorted to similar, but much lesser, self-defence measure of TERESET (Temporary Resettlement) of the perpetrators? Rephrased, how can 3,000 victims in 2001 justify a international, global war, but 120,000 victims in 1914 (and many more in 1915) do not justify even a domestic, local TERESET ?

The Armenian lobby point to the women and children in the Armenian groups temporarily relocated, but the same fail to point out that there were Muslim women and children forced to flee by the Russian-Armenian forces from the Caucasus into Eastern Anatolia. So, same suffering, same numbers, same area, same era, same wartime conditions... But just because other sufferers are Muslim, mostly Turkish, you don’t get to read about them in evil resolutions like H.Res. 252. This is the kind of selective conscience the racist Armenian falsifiers and their fellow Turk-haters who push H.Res. 252 have. We say if we are all to grieve about human suffering and man’s inhumanity to man, then let’s do that without discriminating on the basis of ethnicity, religion. Let’s grieve for both Armenian and Turk... and Arab, and Jew, and Greek, and Kurd, and Laz, and Circassian, and Albanian, and Bosnian, and Pomak and many others...

Why cherry-pick Armenians from the lot and ignore or dismiss the rest? Who gives anyone such power to classify and rank human beings? Only the evil Armenian lobby and their fellow Turk-haters commit such overtly hate-based resolutions, year after year, with absolutely no shame or remorse... Why is my dead lesser than your dead? Why should we grieve your dead and disregard my dead? Who the hell are you? That’s how I feel about the H.Res. 252. Those who want empathy from others should learn to give empathy to others.

Then there is the oft misrepresented issue of April 24th. What is the significance of 24th of April, 1915? The AFATH lobby [5] would have you believe it is the beginning of a so called genocide. But is it? What really happened that day? . On that day, some 237 Armenian terror and/or treason suspects (not thousands as claimed) were arrested by the Ottoman police and sent to central Anatolia, to places like Corum, Cankiri, Ankara, etc., and subjected to house arrest. This meant they could roam around during the day, even conduct business which some of them did, but had to check into a designated house at night. Not exactly genocide, is it? Not even Guantanamo, wouldn’t you agree? All of these suspects were returned in the end, except two. Those two were, indeed, murdered but on unrelated disputes of money and trade. No matter how one slices it, none of this sounds like genocide, does it? So, 24th of April is the beginning of OTTOMAN GUANTANAMO, not a bogus genocide as promoted in H.Res. 252.

Turks and Armenians had lived in a relatively harmonious cohabitation in Anatolia for nearly a millennium before the Armenian took up arms against their own government towards the end of that millennium (i.e. 1893-1915). Had the Armenians (and others) not taken up arms against their own neighbors, co-citizens, and government, they would have still been living in Anatolia today, just like the Armenians of Istanbul who mostly stayed loyal to the Ottoman Empire. Since when, then, defending one’s home a genocide? Would America behave differently today if three million Americans (roughly equivalent of 120,000 Ottomans killed by Armenians in 1914 alone) were mercilessly killed by some insurgent groups who then enthusiastically joined the enemy armies invading America?

Take a look at this other photo, also from Armenian sources. [Houshamatyan book, page 45] [3]. Here you can see the Armenian gangs, para military hoodlums, armed to the teeth, with mostly Russian deadly Mosin rifles given to the Armenian Revolutionary Federation terrorists by Russia starting from 1893 [4]. Armenian militia, just as deadly as the Armenian uniformed forces pictured above. Can you imagine? All of these thugs, murderers, and terrorists were presented to the unsuspecting Western readers as “poor, starving Armenians” murdered by barbaric Turks. Such narrative fit their bias perfectly. Never mind that it was fake, false, and untrue. Armenian archives must be full of these photos, letters, documents, and “smoking guns”, which helps explain why Armenian archives in the hands of Armenian government, churches, and parties remain closed to scholarly study to this date. Turks have opened their archives more than two decades ago and scholars from 80 countries have already studied them. We have nothing to fear from the truth, but Armenians tremble when we suggest that a “committee of historians” study all the archives. When you see the meaningless Armenian resistance to scholarly fact-finding, it makes you think, what are Armenians hiding? Of course, looking at those photos above, and thousands like them, we have slight idea (smiles.)

Where are the Turks killed by these blood-thirsty Armenian terrorists? Where? Do not look for them in that malicious H.Res. 252 because you will not find them there. That is what both angers and frustrates, but also energizes and motivates me, and tens of thousands of Turkish Americans like me. We are the voice of those silent masses who cannot speak out to defend themselves against slanders and lies. Those nameless, faceless, voiceless Turkish victims find a voice in us. Many of those Turkish victims were in my father’s extended family in Kirlikova and my mother’s family in Skopje. Every Turkish family has similar stories of suffering and loss. And where is all that? You cannot find them in the narratives of the AFATH community. [5]

It is exactly because of these reasons, I have invented a new word, "Ethocide", a companion and supplementary term to “Genocide”, at exactly at 8:58 am, on Wednesday, May 7, 2003, after being frustrated by the incredibly biased coverage of Turkish-Armenian issue in the American press. [6]

Ethocide, my humble gift to the English language, is coined from the words "ethics" and "cide". Its companion term in Turkish, Ahlakkirim, is also my invention and modest gift to the Turkish language. They both mean one and the same thing with the short definition: "systematic extermination of ethics via deliberate and malicious mass deception for political and/or other benefits. For a longer and proper definition you can go to www.ethocide.com. [7] I want the newer generations to be able to fight the bogus Armenian genocide effortlessly with proper tools like this new term. So called genocide scholars are committing this crime of conscience, ethocide, every time they ignore or dismiss the “six T’s of the Turkish Armenian conflict. [8] Anyone who wishes to learn more about the falsifications, misrepresentations, lies, and fabrications embodied in the H.Res. 252 should go to reference [9].





: What do you think about this image of Turks persistently promoted by the Armenians as barbaric, ruthless overlords, even in the H.Res. 252 and pretty much everywhere else?

: I think will ask my friend Voltaire , the famous 18th Century French philosopher, to come to my aid here (smiles.) You see, Voltaire was a campaigner against tyranny and bigotry, which is probably why he could not keep out of trouble. Voltaire, the Renaissance man of the Enlightenment, always struck back with bitter, mocking, poignant sarcasm whenever he was attacked. Voltaire often scrutinized the political and philosophical controversies of the 18th century and fought tirelessly for the oppressed. And Voltaire did comment on Turks, too, and here is what he said: “ The great Turk is governing in peace twenty nations from different religions. Turks have taught the Christians how to be moderate in peace and gentle in victory." Enough said, I presume?

: Considering the “Aid Raid” fallout between Israel and Turkey, do you think HR 252 would fail a floor vote without the usual stiff resistance from the Jewish lobby?

: The amicable Jewish Turkish relations go back further in history than the history of the United States. Turkey is a home, just like Israel, for every Jew, to come live, prosper, build a community, and feel safe. Both Israel and the Jewish lobby know this well which may be why they were measured in their comments after the “Aid Raid” last June, save a few extremists on Jewish and Turkish sides. Turkish-Jewish friendship predates even 1492 Spanish Inquisitions, when Jews found a home in Turkish lands after being expelled under the well documented threats of "convert to Christianity or die... or leave Spain." When European countries would not allow expelled Jews in for fear of retaliation from Catholic Rome, the Ottoman Empire not only invited the homeless Jews but also sent the Ottoman Navy to bring them to Turkish lands. Jews prospered there as loyal Ottoman citizens. Such history cannot be exchanged for a few Armenian votes or campaign dollars, although some ignorant ones still do. There is that aspect.

At issue are not Israel, the Jewish lobby or even Armenian interests; at issue are American interests. Plain and simple. Passing HR 252 would cause irreparable harm to Turkey-USA relations which may manifest themselves in the US policies in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and many others. The question in front of the 111th US Congress people would be “Do Armenian interests trump American interests?” When that happens, you can pretty much guess the outcome.

If your readers wish to know more about Turkish-Jewish relations and how Armenian gangs murdered Turks and Jews during WWI, they should refer to reference [10].

In summary, H.Res. 252 was Bad for national security as it negatively affected the use of Incirlik Airbase in Turkey; partnership in Afghanistan; cooperation in Iraq, energy security, and a whole host of other issues. It also would devastate the U.S. policy in the Balkans, Caucasus, Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa, where Turkey continues to work with the U.S. on moderation, development, and peace. H.Res. 252 was anti-business as it sought to limit and punish bilateral commercial relationships where the U.S. had a huge surplus with multibillion dollars in commercial aviation, aerospace, and defence sales. These mean American jobs. Nothing remotely comparable comes from tiny, land-locked, poverty-stricken, aggressive, violent, and corrupt Armenia whose top export is illegal aliens and crooks and top import is foreign aid from American taxpayers and donations from Armenian Americans. One should be insane to support crooks and terrorists, especially in the face of insulting and angering a bulwark of Western defence alliance, and island of peace, stability and progress, a driving force in moderation, and a reliable friend in the troubled Middle East. Forces of reason and moderation reigned, thankfully, as the Obama Administration opposed the bringing of this contentious issue to a floor vote with both the Defense and State Departments playing active roles on Capitol Hill in opposition to H.Res. 252. If you look back, you will see that this deceptive and dishonest resolution was passed by the HFAC by the narrowest of margins: a single vote, thanks to the under-handed tactics of Congressman Berman. The American people and American interests deserve better than these shady politicians like Pelosi, Berman, Schiff, Pallone, Radanovich, and other prominent members of the AFATH community. [5]

The Armenian American National Committee (ANCA), the U.S. representative of a political party in Armenia called the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, or ARF for short, demanded that the United States Congress take H.Res. 252 to a floor vote. Their proxies named above obliged. Last March, H.Res. 252 had controversially passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee 23-22, severely harming the U.S. policy to support a Joint Historical Commission to address the Armenian allegation of genocide, and causing serious disruption in U.S. - Turkish relations. H.Res. 252 is an anti-Turkish, anti-Muslim racist measure that erroneously defines the Armenian case as genocide, a contention with which the vast majority of experts on WWI Middle East history and the Ottoman Empire disagree. [11]

H.Res. 252 unfairly accuses, judges and convicts people of Turkish heritage with this high crime without due process. On the other hand, Armenian community in the U.S. is exposed with yet another cycle of massive fraud, stealing American taxpayers’ money to the tune of $163 million. [12] And as Wikileaks revealed, the Armenian Republic sells arms to Iran, promoting an aggressive policy in the Caucuses and Middle East, and causing U.S. soldiers in Iraq to be killed by those weapons. [13] The Armenian Republic currently occupies western Azerbaijan, by the massacres and forced migration of nearly one million Azeris. [14] How can any reasonable politician support the Armenian crooks and terrorists, especially in the face of serious threat to American interests?

When Saddam crossed the line in to Kuwait in 1991, we reversed aggression using military might. When Milosevic resorted to ethnic cleansing and genocide, we bombed Yugoslavia in 1998 to smithereens. But when Armenia committed all of these crimes against humanity, namely aggression, ethnic cleansing, and genocide in Karabagh, some unscrupulous politicians like Pelosi, Berman, Schiff, Pallone, Radanovich, Menendez and others tried shamelessly to reward the rogue state of Armenia and its murderous leaders. These kinds of blatant double standards, bias, and bigotry are neither helping America’s image nor America’s global interests. Here we have the most powerful nation on earth, represented by political pygmies! We shall continue to educate the American public to this sad picture.

: I know we cannot cover all aspects of this 100 year old controversy in one interview, but I thank you for your time and the insight you provided.

: It was my pleasure. May I please leave your readers with the following quote from 1923, food for thought so to speak, so that when they see the H.Res. 252 reincarnated under yet other number next year, they will at least have a baseline to which to compare the baseless Armenian allegations: "…In some towns containing ten Armenian houses and thirty Turkish houses, it was reported that 40,000 people were killed, about 10,000 women were taken to the harem, and thousands of children left destitute; and the city university destroyed, and the bishop killed. It is a well- known fact that even in the last war the native Christians, despite the Turkish cautions, armed themselves and fought on the side of the Allies. In these conflicts, they were not idle, but they were well supplied with artillery, machine guns and inflicted heavy losses on their enemies…." [15]

Invoking the visionary leader Ataturk, who so aptly put it for the rest of us, may there be in the new year and beyond

”Peace At Home, Peace In The World”

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Notes & References:

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[1] Houshamatyan of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, Centennial, Album-Atlas, Volume I, Epic Battles, 1890-1914, The Next Day Color Printing, Inc., Glendale, CA, U.S.A., 2006, page 186.

[2a] The Dictionary of WWI, Stephen Pope & Elizabeth-Anne Wheal, 2003, ISBN 0 85052 979-4, page 34

[2b] The Armenian Rebellion at Van, Justin McCarthy, Esat Arslan, Cemaletting Taskiran, Omer Turan (The University of Utah Press, Salt lake City, USA, 2006)

[2c] Free E-Book : "Genocide Of Truth" by Sukru Server Aya, Based On Neutral or Anti-Turkish Sources ( Istanbul Commerce University, Turkey, 2008) For a copy: Armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2008/04/2429-new-e-book-genocide-of-truth-based.html

[3] Houshamatyan of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, Centennial, Album-Atlas, Volume I, Epic Battles, 1890-1914, The Next Day Color Printing, Inc., Glendale, CA, U.S.A., 2006, page 45.

[4] Houshamatyan of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, Centennial, Album-Atlas, Volume I, Epic Battles, 1890-1914, The Next Day Color Printing, Inc., Glendale, CA, U.S.A., 2006, page 241.

[5] AFATH : Armenian Falsifiers and Turk -Haters.

[6] www.ethocide.com : Ethocide, Not Genocide: www.turkiye.net:bbasol:sonyazi.htm
Soykirim Degil, Ahlakkirim : www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=323&yid=4

[7] ethocide.com:news.html : Ethocide: A new term coined by Ergun Kirlikovali, a Turkish-American student and researcher in history, on May 7, 2003, as a long needed companion term and an antonym for the term "genocide" created by Lemkin in 1943 (Turkish counterpart also coined: "AHLAKKIRIM")"Systematic extermination of ethics via malicious and deliberate mass deception for political, personal, economic, social, moral, religious, ethnic, national, regional, and other gain." Ethocide is a crime of conscience, committed by biased and bigoted individuals who subscribe to racist and dishonest interpretation of history and are intolerant of dissent. Called "ethociders", such people will openly resort to censorship of dissenting views and intimidation of dissenters.

[8] The Six Apologies Turks Have Been Waiting For Since WW1 : www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=302&yid=4

[9] If Facts Matter To You, Then Read This Analysis On H.Res. 252: www.historyoftruth.com:authors:ergun-kirlikovali:8393-if-facts-matter-to-you-then-read-this-analysis-on-hres-252

[10] Israeli & Jewish Sources That Refute The Alleged Armenian Genocide : www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=462&yid=4
[11] Declaration Signed By 69 Prominent American Academicians : http://www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=338&yid=4

[12] Massive Armenian Fraud Exposed … Again!: www.turkla.com/2010/10/15/massive-armenian-fraud-exposed-B€ -again

[13] Wikileaks Bombshell: Armenian Arms Sold To Iran Used In Killing Us Soldiers In Iraq: www.turkla.com/2010/11/29/wikileaks-bombshell-armenian-arms-sold-to-iran-used-in-killing-us-soldiers-in-iraq:
[14] Why Turkey is right in demanding the end to occupation in Karabakh:
news.az/articles/turkey/29003

[15] The Secret of the Near East, Lamsa, George M., a missionary well known for his research on Christianity, The Ideal Press, Philadelphia 1923, p 133

More References (which are not listed in the text above:)
[16] Bernard Lewis Speaking on Armenian Allegations, 3 min 29 sec - Oct 11, 2007: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG70UWESfu4
[17] http://www.tallarmeniantale.com : Tall Armenian Tale - TAT : Supports the case against the Armenian Genocide Myth with mostly impartial evidence.
[18] www.turkishcoalition.org : The Turkish Coalition of America - TCA : Established in 2007, The Turkish Coalition of America (TCA) is working on matters related to Turkish American issues and Turkish Heritage.

[19] www.taldf.org : Turkish American Legal Defense Fund : TALDF is established in order to educate and advise Turkish Americans regarding their constitutionally guaranteed right to free expression. TALDF successfully defended rights of individuals harassed and slandered by Armenian(s) for rejecting bogus Armenian claims of genocide.

[20] www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr : Ermeni Sorunu means The Armenian Problem in Turkish. This site provides a detailed account of the problem and has extensive archive database. Also in French, German and Turkish.

[21] www.eraren.org : Institute For Armenian Research : ERAREN.org is the web site of Institute for Armenian Research where scholarly studies based on primary sources elucidate Armenian claims and falsifications.

[22] www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr : Turkish State Archives : One of the most comprehensive archives in the world and with all its massive references, it only give truth seekers a glimpse of what the Western scholars prejudicially ignored and Armenians falsifiers censored since 1915 and prior.

[23] www.turkla.com : comments on timely issues concerning the Turkish-Armenian conflict and provides a databank on sources and materials frequently censored by Armenian falsifiers and Turk haters.
[25] www.historyoftruth.com : comments on timely issues concerning the Turkish-Armenian conflict and provides a databank on sources and materials frequently censored by Armenian falsifiers and Turk haters

[26] www.turkishjournal.com : comments on timely issues concerning the art, culture, heritage, economy, industry, sports, and many other issues concerning Turkey and America.

[27] www.turkishny.com : comments on timely issues concerning the art, culture, heritage, economy, industry, sports, and many other issues concerning Turkey and America.

[28] www.mediawatchnow.com : comments on timely issues concerning the Turkish-Armenian conflict and provides talking points to refute articles that unfairly, unjustifiably, deliberately, and in an unprovoked manner defame and demonize Turkish heritage, Turkish Americans, Turks, Turkics, and Turkey.

[29] www.turkishalert.com : comments on timely issues concerning the Turkish-Armenian conflict and provides talking points to refute articles that unfairly, unjustifiably, deliberately, and in an unprovoked manner defame and demonize Turkish heritage, Turkish Americans, Turks, Turkics, and Turkey.
[30] History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey, Vol I & II, Stanford Shaw (Cambridge University Press, London, New York, Melbourne, 1976)

[31] The Story Behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story, Heath W. Lowry ( The Isis Press, Istanbul, Turkey, 1990)

[32] The Ottoman Peoples and the End of Empire, Justin McCarthy (Arnold, London, U.K., 2001

[33] Declaration Signed by 69 Prominent North American Academicians, New York Times and Washington Post, may 19, 1985 (for a copy: www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=338&yid=4

[34] Ermeniler: Sürgün ve Göç, Türk Tarih Kurumu (Ankara, Turkey, 2004)

[35] The Armenian File, Kamuran Gurun (Rustem Bookshop, Mersin, Turkey, 1985)

[36] The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question, Esat Uras (Documentary Publications, Istanbul, Turkey, 1988)

[37] “Pursuing the Just Cause of Their People”, Michael M. Gunter (Greenwood Press, New York, USA, 1986)

[38] “Ermenilerin Zorunlu Göçü, 1915-1917, Kemal Cicek (Turk tarih Kurumu, Ankara, Turkey, 2005)

[39] Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948: www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html (See how the AFATH community always invoke articles 1-3 which define genocide , but completely ignore articles 4-9 which dictate how the genocide verdict shall be reached: via “competent tribunal, not political resolutions! )

[40] Ergun KIRLIKOVALI, 2003, “It Was Not ‘Genocide’; It was - and still is – ‘Ethocide’ “, www.turkiye.net/bbasol/gorusler27.htm ;

[41] Ergun KIRLIKOVALI, 2003, “SOYKIRIM DEGIL, AHLAKKIRIM ”
( www.turkla.com/yazar.php?mid=323&yid=4 )

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